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The Corroboree
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Rev

:huh:

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is this true:

"argyreia nervosa seeds- or hawaiian baby woodrose- those are what we've eaten to trip... this may be why they are bad. the bark on the outside of the seeds contains cyanogenic glycosides- which even if peeled can leach into the seed during the soaking process or can exist within the seed itself naturally. i really suggest not taking these and if you do, be sure to boil them in hot water and peel them while they are still moist( this can kill the enzyme that initiates the poison- but not always entirely successful in doing this) get ALL OF THE BARK AND HAIRY STUFF OFF!! I still don't suggest trying this. i don't know why they websites that tell you how great they are don't warn you about this kind of thing:

CYANOGENIC GLYCOSIDES- Most people have heard of cyanide at one time or another, but few ever realize that such a deadly compound can be very easily derived from innocuous appearing 'natural' sources. Basically, cyanide and cyanogenic glycosides are proof positive that although something is natural, it still can hurt you. This is a group of chemicals found naturally in about 2050 plant species. These are glycosides of plant origin that specifically affect the heart. The ingestion of these chemicals can lead to cyanide toxicity. Effects include abdominal pain, diarrhea, bloody diarrhea, hypertension, tachycardia, tachypnea, respiratory distress, cherry-red blood, vomiting, bloody vomiting, lethargy, hallucinations, seizure, coma and death.

Members of the rose family, Rosaceae, often contain compounds called cyanogenic glycosides. These compounds, when broken down in the body, liberate cyanide, one of the most toxic substances known to man. It's lethal dose is only 1 mg/kg body weight. Luckily for us, the concentration in these plants is usually far below the toxic dose, and the breakdown of the cyanogenic glycosides is often not complete. However, several species in common cultivation do have high concentrations of the glycosides in their seeds, and eating these seeds can (and has been) fatal. These toxic seeds include apple seeds, argyreia nervosa seeds, cultivated cherries, peach and apricot pits, almonds, and pears, which are all members of the rose family. It is only in the crushed, moistened seed which releases an enzyme can the hydrolysis of amygdalin be effected. Soaking and grating release the enzymes that can turn cyanogenic glycosides to active cyanide inside the body. The leaves of wild cherries will also contain the poison. Some other common plants which can generate cyanide include hydrangeas, tropical lima beans (not the white american ones), bamboo sprouts, sorghum shoots, and cassava tubers. Cassava, in particular, is very toxic, and cannot be eaten raw; this is important since large parts of the world use cassava as a main carbohydrate source.

Ive been trying these since they miraculously arrived in my lap, and ive had no negative experiences at all - quite different to what i was warned about - no nausea at all and i didnt even peal half of them.

My main complaint was the lack of stimulant actin - LSD, cactus, 2cb (to a lesser extent) and mushrooms all give me an up as well as psychedelic experiences, whilst woodrose makes me lethargic.

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there are small amounts of cyanide in MANY foods and they are not doing us any harm. ditto for the HBWR as the amount would not be more than maybe a few apple pips (if at all).

I've had some closely related seeds (Merremia sp) which stank of benzaldehyde when crushed (indicating cyanide presence). Caution might be advised with those.

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...some people rumor that, the indigestion of the seeds from 4ex. apples is a remedy against cancer...

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Totally agree with torsten and rev, just make sure the seeds are clean...

I remember a couple of years ago someone I know ate 30 speciosa seeds and just went to bed, nothing much happened....

who knows what toxins are in some mushrooms?

people eat them anyway....

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A gnome that I once knew ate ten seeds on 2 separate occassions ( same seed ). The first time was fairly mild with mainly extreme happiness while the second outing produced fairly intense effects and a toxic feeling the next day. The gnomes friend felt extremally sick and thought they were dying. Seeds on both occasions were prepared the same way I am told.

Later.

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a gnome and his boyfriend each took half of a water extraction of 22 seeds..the gnome had a very cool, clean euphoric trip

his boyfriend felt nauseous, then anxious, then his muscles started to lock up so much that he had to walk with 'frozen' legs, his jaw starting locking up and he couldnt speak properly..this was within 30 minutes, so purging was initiated to abort any further absorption.

his initial thoughts were that the seeds and induced mindstate were incompatible with his own 'toxicity', ie diet/lifestyle, and that this had been 'stirred up' .. however it seemed later, he either forgot this conclusion, or changed his mind, and now considers the seeds as mildly-moderately toxic.

[ 14. September 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: coin ]

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I've heard of 20 being eaten with survival. Too much nausea though. This is simply overkill. I've heard of other gnomes taking 12 and getting next to no nausea while at other times getting quite ill for at least the first hour from as few as four seeds (the same variety of seed). I think it depends on how clean the seeds are, and to an even greater extent what precautionary measures (eg. ginger) are taken BEFOREHAND to prevent nausea. Also, alcohol (and possibly lack of sleep) will increase chances of nausea many fold (i get car sick way more readily when i'm tired and haven't had much sleep). I think it would pay big time to make sure the time is right (ie. feeling good, have had a good sleep and have been eating healthy, not drinking and already in a good mood).

Also, don't quote me on this but ephedra (and possibly khat) prior to ingestion have been reported to block the effects of the seed (ie. 15 seeds ~4 hours after ephedra produced no effect. 15 seeds in controls produced strong effect).

Also, i think this thing about keeping the seeds in the capsules making them last longer really needs to be properly tested. Could be just an old wives-tale (no offence to wives).

happy gardening!

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Does anyone have a scientific reference for cyanogenic glycosides in HBWR seeds? I would be interested to read it. I assumed that these contained similar kaurenoid glycosides to Turbina corymbosa reported to have a strychnine-like action.

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I only raised that as a possible link to the nausea everyone is talking about - after consumming 10 the other weekend i still received no real nausea - more diaherra and achy legs.

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I only raised that as a possible link to the nausea everyone is talking about - after consumming 10 the other weekend i still received no real nausea - more diaherra and achy legs.

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