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direct and voluntary control of hallucinations

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has anybody ever been able to have direct and voluntary control over manipulating the content or form of drug-induced hallucinations? this is a very interesting question, as the most up-to-date definitions of 'hallucination' in medical and psychological theories precludes such a thing a priori. According to such theories, therefore, if you could do such a thing as exhibit this type of control, or partial control then you wouldn't be having a hallucination. Does anyone have any experiences to relate? I thought the pinnacle of shamanic plant use was the ability to be able to do this.

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this is a very interesting question, as the most up-to-date definitions of 'hallucination' in medical and psychological theories precludes such a thing a priori.

can you elaborate?

my understanding is that a hallucination = a sensory experience for which there is no known external source.

Edited by twix elbert

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hallucination = a sensory experience for which there is no known external source
In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space. These definitions distinguish hallucinations from the related phenomena of dreaming, which does not involve consciousness; illusion, which involves distorted or misinterpreted real perception; imagery, which does not mimic real perception and is under voluntary control; and pseudohallucination, which does not mimic real perception, but is not under voluntary control.[1] Hallucinations also differ from "delusional perceptions", in which a correctly sensed and interpreted genuine perception is given some additional (and typically bizarre) significance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination

A typical "hallucination" induced by a psychedelic drug is more accurately described as a modification of regular perception, and the subject is usually quite aware of the illusory and personal nature of their perceptions. Deliriants, such as diphenhydramine and atropine, may cause hallucinations in the proper sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelics,..._and_deliriants

So AFAIK if you are aware that your visions are not real & if you are able to manipulate them, then they are not strictly hallucinations.

As far as manipulating visuals, i have been able to do it on ketamine fairly easily & on shrooms w/a bit ov concentration.

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heard the same of pcp.......cartoon figures on a table top responding to thought control.

t s t .

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I would have called direct and voultary contorl of halluconations - imagination.

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I would have called direct and voultary contorl of halluconations - imagination.

for cevs maybe but for oevs?

isnt that kind of imagination called psychosis or schizophrenia?

t s t .

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Once when I was shrooming I was able to turn the OEVs on and off. This also happens to me to a certain extent on marijuana. I've heard Terence Mckenna talk on being manipulate his CEVs on ayahuasca, he would ask the aya to show him certain types of patterns or visuals and it would respond thus.

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mc kenna also claimed to ask the shroom to change the experience to that of another drug and it would do so.

t s t .

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imagination does not usually have such heightened visual content as to be 'verisimilitudinous", although I have experimented with guided imagery that has acheived such a level as a normal external percept, certainly it is rare.

Also, to call a hallucination a percept without any known similar external stimulus is thorny for 2 reasons, one being that this does not distinguish illusion from hallucination. changing this to "no known external stimulus" also seems wrong, for many hallucinations are "guided" as it were, by normal stimuli eg. hearing screaming voices from a drill or voices from a toilet flush, which would otherwise not occur in the absence of that external percept. it seems that maybe the best way to go is acknowledge that the definition of hallucination might be more like a "family resemblance" type of thing.

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I know a gnome that can control the aspects of a trip to some degree , being able to switch of visual aspects or go into them ( obviously depending on the substance). Being a bit ofg a freak in his younger days he proceeded to drop 3+ tabs of LS ( of decent strength too ). And a number of MD__ tablets also quite decent strength and was in complete control the whole experience able to control the intensity of the visual aspect and also remain clear headed with ratioanl thought patterns.

The only thing tthe gnome told me he couldn't control was high dose 5meo dmt 50+mg of pure chemical said he could not manipulate the experience in anyway for at least the first 15 mins , Has also told me he has been able to control /manipulate aspects of Salvia concentartes , ABEIT WITH MUCH FOCUS

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here is the thing...... if i do not get overwhelemed by a drug, then i can steer the experience and consciously explore parts of spirit mind body connection.....

i the beginning there were allot of CEV's..... with time and more experience that was turned into more conscious exploration..

drugs for me are really just tools for intense concentration and inner/outer exploration.

but what i know i can easily do is to let my fantasy run free and therefore allow for vivid CEV's........ and in really dark places in a total relaxation (like on bed) i can project outside of me without the use of drugs.

drugs are just tools for concentration when used in the right way. some are more usefull then others.

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but here is where it gets interesting...... when you are tripping and you follow your mindtrip/visuals consciously, you will notice that your surroundings will trigger your fantasy to come up with related thoughts or symbolic imagery....... this is just a bginners phase..... with time and effort you will become better at interpeting where the stimmulus comes from....... it will then become LESS symbolic and more intutive.

with time you will notice that you can do this without drugs. because it is all about conscious concentration...... which brings me to this derren brown dude... you should watch his Youtube vids...... they can be extremely helpfull for understaning the human mind.

********************************************************************************

*******

People...... concentrate on what you want!

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has anybody ever been able to have direct and voluntary control over manipulating the content or form of drug-induced hallucinations?

I can be a participant, especially with rhythmic music - the more rhythmically complex, the more beautiful, intricate, interwoven imagery I can create. I find it to be one of the supreme joys when you find yourself in that sweet spot & consider the challenge to be to make the most beautiful imagery possible. Like Mark80 said, this is down to imagination.

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there are many aspects to this, and my quick answere is yes, but it's acomplished only rarly and to a varying degree.

i call it navigation, because you might be able to steer towards a certain goal, but one can't control the winds, the currents and the condition of the path.

the first control happens, with set and setting, doesn't it? if you are realy happy because something nice happend to you that day and you take a halucigenic, chances are it will be a positive non scary experience, to me that constitutes some sort of controll.

the next is, if the experience takes a basicly unwanted and frightening aspect, but by accepting those issues and concentrating on loveing, nice and fluffy things, the experience will become equally nice and careing.

but this is not allways possible to the same degree as changing the tv channel, but definately manageable.

the highest degree of control would be, if the hallucinations become exactly the way one has planed before the experience, and surly this happens quite regularly with aya.

aswell what would you call it if, one is in contact with an entety which replies to all questions asked?

isn't that control, the halu responds directly to your questions, meaning you are in control over all the subject matter.

the classical shaman doe's a similar thing, he asks his spirit guide, how to solve a spesific problem for his client.

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When on mushrooms, to detect when or if anything was happening, I'd stare at the clouds in the sky. The aim was to make the clouds disappear. I could recognise the onset when I could make clouds disppear. This may not be mind control. and maybe clouds disappear for everyone weather you're wanting it or not if you stare at them long enough.

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Dreams, visions, hallucinations, reality, all that is... taken in its totality can be altered in as far as ones own personal perceptual apparatus is concerned and this can be done in such a manner as to govern the control of such an experience to include all of your sensory organs, emotions, thoughts, etc. Your brain waves, pulse, breathing, etc.... all of it is capable of being under conscious control and should not alarm anyone that they are or can be under conscious control. For the most part though and for most people these things are a result of the unconscious mind manifesting. You place your own limits on your consciousness whether your choose to realize this or not. Much of this is taught from such a young age and so subtly that you are not aware of being taught anything in regards to this or not. Do some research, there has been quite a bit done in each of these areas. To put it simply, you can end your own life via the power of thought alone. It is the power of certain sacraments that enables us to break down these learned ways of perceiving reality that hopefully opens us up to the possibility of another reality of our choosing in much the same way that you can become aware of a dream over time and loosen the constraints of that world... you can learn to loosen the constraints of this world. Notice, I didn't say you could abolish all rules and laws of any world be it dream, waking reality, etc. I only said that you can loosen the constraints and much more is possible than what we allow ourselves to believe we can achieve. The few who manage to work in one field or another to learn to slow their heart rate at will, alter their brain waves, etc.... It all resides in how we choose to manage the information that our brain processes. Do some research on this and you will never be able to stop as you will find articles in sociology, psychology, etc. etc. to back up all of these claims.

 

Ken Wilbur

http://www.tao-garden.com/PCEtest1.html

Taoist practices....

There is plenty more out there... do some research and post it here so we can all learn.

Edited by Inyan

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definately yes for vision....especially high dose LSD.

I used to really enjoy making a painting on the wall turn 360 deg untill it was upside down or any angle, I could even scale the size of the painting while turning it.

But auditory has been out of way out of my control once or twice...but I think that it was the onset of a wee bit of meth psychosis :huh:

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in terms of cev's,some things seem to give visions while others basically turn your thoughts visual so you can see and interact with them.......

t s t .

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anyone seen 'speed racer' the movie?

at the very start (i think just after the WB logo) there are kaleidoscope type visuals which is the closest thing i have seen to the CEV's i often get. i can interact with them to an extent, sort of like shaking the kaleidoscope.

with mary the cev's i get are basically my illustrated thoughts - but sometimes it can be a bit random - ie if i think of the beach i might see a beach or a shell or something.

But no matter how much i look, i haven't seen the sailboat yet. :P

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