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niall

Looming Constitutional Challenge on plant use as religious freedom

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Hi guys,

A friend is taking his case all the way to the High Court, and we're looking for interest parties who have a stake in this case to make submissions.

In particular we're looking for anyone in Australia who uses plants/herbs of any kind in a religious context, and also in a medicinal context for healing. The case involves cannabis, but we're looking for submissions from anyone who uses (or believes in the use of) currently prohibited plants and herbs for religious and/or medical reasons. The case will be touching on the long established history of beneficial plants being used by established religions and cultures - and their persecution, which we believe continues today. I'm particularly interested in hearing from indigineous communities who are now unable to use their traditional medicines and plants.

If you know of anyone who might be interested, please pass on my contact details. The case proceeds in August and we may be heading straight to the High Court from there later in the year. We expect to win, this is a very comprehensive and solid case.

Thanks guys, feel free to forward this message on to anyone you think may be interested. Please PM or email me if you're willing to stand up for your religious/medical use of whole plants and submit supporting documentation to the High Court.

 

EDIT: Renamed thread title so it's more accurate - sadly we've learnt it's a long way to the High Court

Edited by niall

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very interesting.

what is the basis of your religious freedom claim?

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More specific detail is coming in the next few weeks, our next appearance is in County Court late August. Please email me for details and I'll distribute information once it's available in the coming weeks.

The argument is comprehensive, covering many points of law. It's difficult to appreciate individual pieces in isolation from the rest of the brief, but it covers the Australian Constitution, Victoria's religious freedom laws, Australia's violation of the UN treaties, and comments from Politicians and the Media on the public record.

Cannabis plays a central, defining role in the religion of the defendent: Christianity.

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oh no is this the 'annointed one' thing? How does cannabit play a central, defining role in Christianity?

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I'm a Christian and cannabis isn't a central part of my religion,hHow will you prove it's part of his? What denomination is he?

P.S. Im sorry about the 'oh no' statement, i'll play nice, i just can't see how you could make this argument?

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I'm a Christian and cannabis isn't a central part of my religion,hHow will you prove it's part of his? What denomination is he?

P.S. Im sorry about the 'oh no' statement, i'll play nice, i just can't see how you could make this argument?

Because Jesus died on a tree? Because he rolled a stone away? Maybe feeding the 5000 was just him with the munchies. I know for a fact people around his time were frequently stoned to death. [/dad jokes]

On more serious (but probably just as laughable note), I've had a Jesus-oriented religious experience on a joint. I won't go into details because I have a headache and am at work, but it involved a week-long mental struggle with the concept of being a 'born again', eventually culminating in a 15-minute peak experience. Sounds unlikely, but it completely took me by surprise too, and was definitely not just a weed thing. More like, conviction + prayer + weed. It only happened once and probably won't happen again, but it was certainly one of those all-the-pieces-fit moments.

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some christians ritually consume their god in the form of alcohol,rastifarians are christians too.

t s t .

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Dont go in there saying stuff that is not factual,you'll be doing more harm then good for future battles..imo

I was thinking the same thing. I'd hate to see a half-cocked defence set an unhealthy precedent.

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Maybe feeding the 5000 was just him with the munchies.

Classic :lol:

But seriously, I hope your friend can pull this off niall. I wish you the best of luck.

Alice

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I appreciate the concern guys, more than you may realise, but this is legit. It's all in the Bible, you only have to read it and understand. HOWEVER, the case doesn't hinge around this fact. It's one piece of supporting evidence in a large, comprehensive list from many different angles. I can't explain everything just yet, but trust me - the Court has no choice. This is feeling like another Eddy Mabo, it is jaw dropping and I feel very honoured to be witnessing this. To be here in Melbourne, quite coincidentally, at this particular point in time and having met these people, and being where I am in my own life and personal circumstances. Surreal doesn't do this feeling justice, everything is in slow motion and the dew drops are so beautiful I am crying and I'm aware of just how precious and unique this point in time is... *ahem* :-)

This case is literally the "perfect storm" of circumstances. I can't get into more detail just yet, but trust me more information will be made public soon - I just need to get the nod before revealing anything that isn't already public. If it doesn't succeed then it will be on some technicality, and by this I really do mean a technicality not some lame excuse or my friend dropping the ball. It's a complex case, before the Police even walked in the door, but every step of the way too - there are many amazing facets to this case.

I truly believe that this is it. And hey, worst case, it sets the scene in a big way for someone to hammer the final nail - Canada has already fallen, the house of cards is already in motion. We're witnessing something major here, and it's either freedom or the end of society as we know it - global revolution either way I just hope it's the subtle, society enriching kind.

More soon, but please guys: we are looking for people willing to contribute their own submission in support of the principles I've outlined above. Natural medicines and useful plants that have been banned for no good reason, a religious context is particular to some aspects of this case but we are primarily looking for plants and applications that have a sound basis in science and people willing to stand up and add their own weight to the case as people with an interest in the outcome of this decision. I'm one of them, I'll be putting in a personal submission and hopefully acting as a character witness or in some other capacity to support this case. I believe in this case, and my use of cannabis (as well as my full name, phone number etc.) is on the public record.

Please get in contact with me privately and stand with us with humility and hope that things will finally be set right.

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I could think of a few plants and the appropriate people to make submissions, but if you want anything more than kooks writing kooky letters then you are going to have to present a MUCH more solid case with a fuckload more detail.

The people I am thinking are scientists and other respectable authorities in their field. They are not going to waste their time on something airy fairy. We need substance!

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I agree with Torsten on this. However much I appreciate that you don't want to disclose anything that is going to be used in court, your secrecy is only going to stop people in the community from trusting you enough to make a serious contribution. You must be able to give us more to go on.

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Good luck man. I can't help at all, sad to say, but I am wishing the best for you. Keep us all posted.

Gen

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Michiel Eijsbouts, founder and "Smokelighter" of the church he founded in 2001, has insisted that the Dutch smoking ban in place does not apply to members of his church under national and European human rights legislation.

"We think we have all the marks of a religion," he said.

"We will have to find out what the secular powers-that-be think. For us the constitution and European rules say we have the right to express our religion and we express our religion through smoking."

Church members receive a card, for a fee of £3, to prove their religious denomination as a "Holy Smoker" to the authorities.

Believers sign up to a creed asserting a trinity of smoke, fire and ash. In terms of holy rites their god is honoured by smoking.

The Smokers Church or Rokerskerk has over 2000 members including a "missionary" in Britain, Mr Eijsbouts told The Daily Telegraph.

"For a smoker with a small s it is just a bodily need. For a smoker with a capital S it is a spiritual need, you have to have a religious experience. When you are lighting up you have to think of God," he said.

"Converting people was not easy until the smoking ban started but now people are flocking to the church."

Smoking has been banned in Dutch bars since July 1 and over 100 cafés have applied to the Church so as to be counted as religious institutions.

"We stand firmly behind the church's teachings and that is smoking," said Cor Busch, owner of the Lindeboom bar in the northern Dutch town of Alkmaar.

"Smokers are being discriminated against, a beer and a cigarette belong together."

A spokeswoman for the Dutch health ministry said: "Whether they call it church or not, it is still a bar or café and smoking is still prohibited."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...or-smokers.html

A little bit related.

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Sorry JD how are they related? I honestly hope nialls case is nothing like fraudulent religious claims of a religious right to smoke TOBACCO to essentially circumvent indoor smoking bans?

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Sorry JD how are they related? I honestly hope nialls case is nothing like fraudulent religious claims of a religious right to smoke TOBACCO to essentially circumvent indoor smoking bans?

I was hardly suggesting using the Church of the Holy Smoke as a precedent for decriminalising religious cannabis in Australia. "Religious" and "smoking" is where the similarities stop. I thought it was a funny article, and thought it might be lolled at here.

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Ild think the legalization of marijuana should be based in the spectrum of civil liberties and human rights, and should be pushed away from a religious aspect of it.

The only main argument i can see when it comes to a religious faction is rastafarian.

Either way tho, Best of luck on your case, and hope you do make some positive grounds, and cant wait to see some more information as it comes avalible.

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There is no legal definition of religion in australia as far as I am aware. So, if the right to use cannabis is given under religious freedom laws then all that needs to be done is to form an association, describe this association as a religion in the association's constitution, and then any member is covered.

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There is no legal definition of religion in australia as far as I am aware. So, if the right to use cannabis is given under religious freedom laws then all that needs to be done is to form an association, describe this association as a religion in the association's constitution, and then any member is covered.

The only trouble with that is that I'm not sure the religious freedom laws would override the criminal law. Whilst the US example of the Native American Church consuming peyote is a mildly pursuasive example that could be deployed in court, it is far from binding on our legal system. Given that - as far as I know - there isn't a similar precedent in Commonwealth or State case law, I think it would be nothing short of remarkable for the courts to take such a stance.

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The native american church was for a long time the only example, but in the last few years a few more have been added. A few days ago it was the rastafarians smoking pot in italy, last year it was the UDV in the USA for consuming ayahuasca, and a few years before that it was the Santo Daime in Holland with their ayahuasca. I think it can be done if a lot of things line up in their favour [money being one of them].

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Yea i understand that one could put it under a "we can smoke weed because we are in a church" but personally, i dont find that option as attractive as being it being accepted socially though the Civil court systems, If you know what i mean. However, if thats the only way it can be done... SIGN ME UP :)

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I agree with Torsten on this. However much I appreciate that you don't want to disclose anything that is going to be used in court, your secrecy is only going to stop people in the community from trusting you enough to make a serious contribution. You must be able to give us more to go on.

Absolutely guys, we will be publishing the brief and all details in full in the near future. Please touch base with the appropriate people as this is coming soon, and I'd really like to give them a heads up so that we can hit the ground running. Next Court appearance in Melbourne is late August, I expect the brief will be made available in the coming weeks or just after our appearance. We'll also be looking for supporters and interested people to attend Court, so keep an eye on this thread.

And no it's nothing like this recent "We think we have all the marks of a religion" initiative :-)

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Cools Niall,

Im not sure what would be the best course of action on releasing the information, but if possible try and release as much information as possible before your appearance so the people know abit more about what they are supporting, unless you've been advised not to. Just im thinking the more people know about it, the better ittle be in terms of support and contributions.

Anyway.. again ,best of luck

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