Myristicin is aminated to MMDA in the liver

[knarkkorven]

Still, this is interesting, experience of one of the four subjects who had a "definite" prolonged reaction to oral myristicin 400mg: (unable to post entire paper as it takes up more than required upload memory due to photo copy) "The Pharmacology of Myristicin, A Contribution to the Psychopharmacology of Nutmeg" reference:

Can you upload it somewhere else, please?

This is the best reference I've read so far of the effect of pure myristicin on humans.

The second best is this one:

According to 'THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PURE MATERIA MEDICA' by Timothy F. Allen MD, the effects of eating second year parsnips were:

"Illusions, loss of consciousness, quiet delirium; the illusions were confined to vision, and the patients stared and grasped at imaginary objects in the air, etc.; some of them did not speak at all, others only indistinctly or incoherently; two of them used inarticulate sounds; almost uninterrupted attempts to get out of bed

All labored under delirium tremens; they were in constant motion, talking incessantly, without knowing what they said, and fancied they saw objects which had no existence. They fought with each other and were occasionally attacked with fits of convulsive laughter. They rejected everything that was offered them and were obliged to be restrained by force."

[Torsten]

parsnips also contain apiol, which makes a much more potent amphetamine, so I advise caution when referrign to such mixtures.

this is such an amazing topic. I am always astounded at how so many open minded people completely dismiss nutmeg consumption, safrole application and the conversion itself. So it is nice to see several papers in this thread that have dealt with various angles of this issue.

if the paper is too large you can upload it to the server here. we used to have an open ftp account to upload to. we don't use it anymore, but I am sure I can work out the password. do you have an option of uploading via ftp?

alternatively just email it to me and I'll put it up. it would be nice to have on our server as that way it will stay with the forums for years to come.

[tregar]

The Pharmacology of Myristicin:

http://mihd.net/0cqpmo9

I have easy access to fresh sassafras root as the trees grow like weeds in many locations, hence the easy access to sassafras, and the desire to perform some ethanol soaked oil experiments transdermally in dreams. Transdermal application will also avoid first-pass liver metabolism, so yes it's much easier on the liver. You just have to put in the work of digging them up. Is the same true in Australia?

I do find it interesting that on page 32 of the Prague paper posted a page back at the bottom available for upload, that ninhydrin treatment gave four positive spots to nitrogen containing compounds in the urine of rats who were fed or injected with safrole (indicates also that gut flora did not make the metabolites).

Prague Medical Report page 32:

Rats treated with safrole gave similar results, with four ninhydrin-positive spots. Control safflower oil administration yielded no ninhydrin-postitive spots. Myristicin administration yielded two ninhydrin positive spots, most prominently in the 24-48 h urines. In stark contrast, dihydrosafrole, which does not contain a double-bonded side-chain, did not yield ninhydrin-positive spots.

Dihydrosafrole shown in pic to the left below. Safrole shown to the right.

The authors summarised that allybenzenes and propenylbenzenes do give rise to nitrogen-containing metabolites in rat urine, but that these materials are unstable and give rise to ninhydrin-negative carbonyl-containing compounds. They wrote "it is very probable that these ninhydrin-positive materials in urine are phenylisopropylamines or amphetamines which could bring about the psychotropic effect for nutmeg and other natural products that contain these constituents." The dimethylamine addition product for myristicin metabolite was not found, but the corresponding pyrrolidine and piperidine addition products were reported for myristicin. The implicit suggestion of these authors is that amphetamine-like metabolites are formed from allybenzenes only transiently, and then converted to the observed aminopropiophenone urinary metabolites, with a corresponding alteration of pharmacological response.

So even though according to the paper these amphetamine metabolites are formed only transiently ie only for 20 to 30 minutes, then isn't it possible to keep it up by a continual influx of transdermal application? no idea. The rats reportedly got "high" or became very excited for 30 minutes after given safrole or myristicin oil by intraperitoneal or oral administration but then it wore off.

Edited July 25, 2008 by tregar

[knarkkorven]

Thanks tregar!

parsnips also contain apiol

No, I don't think so... Where did you find that information?

[Torsten]

TNo, I don't think so... Where did you find that information?

You're right. I screwed up.

[tregar]

Results of a couple simple very low dose "oral" sassafras tea experiments, transdermal ethanol soaked bark oil experiments to follow in 1 to 2 weeks.

Experiment 1: 15 grams of fresh aromatic (smelled like liquorice very strongly) bark were scraped from a sassafras root bark piece with a knife (or a carrot peeler would work to) onto a plate then weighed, weight = 15 grams, this was put into a pyrex pot and boiled on high for 5 minutes with the lid of the pyrex inverted and ice put on top of the lid to act as a crude condenser so that any rising steam would condense on the lid and drop back into the tea.

A 20 rep squat was performed for 3 minutes using just the 40 lb bar, went down parallel to the floor, this was done after consuming the root bark tea.

Results: a definite mild amphetamine like high was experienced for 30 minutes, no mistaking it, definite psychoactive effects even from such a small qty of tea, the exercise did indeed trigger the effects to a higher level, no doubt.

Experiment 2: 15 grams of fresh aromatic root bark peelings made into another tea, and this time 15 grams (3 teaspoons) of BCAA (branch chain amino acid) supplement was consumed with the tea and again, another 20 rep squat was performed with just the 40 lb bar.

The purpose of consuming the 10 grams of BCAA protein suplement was to effectively nearly double the amount of ammonia produced by the muscles when working out, this time I experienced an even higher "high" then before, perhaps double in intensity, quite nice.

In Experiment #1, I experienced the stimulating high for a period of approximately 30 minutes, with the 2nd experiment being about double in intensity, and it is slightly trippy feeling to it, very pleasant, floaty kinda imaging. Effects indeed reminiscent of MDX type compounds taken at a very small dose. Not bad with just a 5 minute tea with only 15 gram fresh root bark, and a 3 minute workout. This would be great with a jog outdoors as well.

Note: Experiment #2 gave me about 45 minutes of strong effects, longer and stronger than experiment #1.

Experiments next week with everclear soakings of the aromatic root bark (since safrole is soluble in ethanol) transdermally applied to thigh leg muscles. All of the rootbark was freshly dug and stored in a vacuum food saver package in freezer until experiments begun, then bag opened and fresh bark scraped off. Having taken mdma 120mg in dreams just the night before, I'm pretty impressed to still be able to experience the very pleasant stimulating effects I did this morning from the tea + 10g BCAA supplement + 20 rep squat. The 10 g BCAA supplement really does work to increase the effects nearly double in intensity in my approximation. Taking a BCAA supplment with the tea is the ONLY way to do these experiments, wow, the stimulation is nice. I don't even think much safrole comes out into the tea does it? I wish I had a paper to see just how much safrole goes into a boiling tea, cause I know safrole is soluble in ethanol to a great extent. My eyes are even a teeny tiny bit "buggly" after the 2nd experiment, I'm running around the place like crazy and am really pleasantly sped up in a relaxing sort of way very similar to what mdx compounds seem to produce. The tea was brown/slightly reddish in color. BCAA supplement used shown below.

Note: The effects do not last long enough, 30 minutes (exp 1), 45 minutes (exp 2), but are enjoyable while they do. Transdermal experiments to follow.

[knarkkorven]

Interesting.

How many mg's safrole does 15g sassafras bark contain?

How long did you wait between #1 and #2 ?

[tregar]

knarkkoven said:

How many mg's safrole does 15g sassafras bark contain?

How long did you wait between #1 and #2 ?

1. No idea, been trying to find this info, but it is nowhere to be found. Until someone does an actual steam distillation on it, unsure what the yield is.

2. when effects subsided after experiment #1, waited about 30 minutes or so, then proceeded with experiment #2.

I'm hoping transdermal will allow for a "sustained release" of the safrole into the bloodstream over a longer period of time, but won't know if it works till those experiments are done. There is safrole oil apparent in the soaking everclear mixture, so this is bound to be more effective, esp since safrole is soluble in ethanol and not in water.

Experiment #3 oral 20grams root bark tea, 30 minutes of mild effects experienced once more w/20 rep squat and 15 grams BCAA consumed. The results of the oral experiments unfortunately as mentioned before just don't last long enough, and it's still a far cry from mescaline effects which are much stronger and longer lasting. But I must say, the smell of the fragrant tea is second to none, and it's amazingly fragrant, the smell is awesome.

Be careful with the sassafras tea, I had three cups that day and later that night I was seeing faint closed eye visual stuff before I fell asleep some 8 hours later (very very vague, however) and I was occasionaly burping the fragrance some 4 to 8 hours later. I think a transdermal experiment would eliminate the flavoured burps and it would also avoid first pass liver metabolism, so it's much easier on the liver as well. will let you know what i find in 1 to 2 weeks concerning the transdermal experiments.

Edited July 27, 2008 by tregar

[Torsten]

I am pretty sure Sassafras contains alkaloids. By using a non-steam distilled extraction you may be introducing these substances. Your effects may well be due to the aporphine derivatives, including apomorphine which is dopaminergic.

There is also boldine, which looks interesting.