alkatrope Posted April 23, 2008 Anyone else find the ones growing directly from wood tend to get alot bigger and have much wavier caps? At times I've wondered if it was cyanescens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted April 24, 2008 The wavy cap seems to be a specific genotype to VIC, I never see any photos of wavy caps from WA or SA, and certainly have never seen anything more than 'maybe a lil wavy but not really' in NSW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alkatrope Posted April 24, 2008 Yeah, it's interesting. Does anyone know what the sitch is with the cyans? I swear they're the exact same thing as subs, just a wavy cap varient. Is it a case of taxonomy gone wrong? Or is there just some minute difference in the DNA that classifies it as a different species despite looking virtually the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undergrounder Posted April 24, 2008 Yeah, it's interesting.Does anyone know what the sitch is with the cyans? I swear they're the exact same thing as subs, just a wavy cap varient. Is it a case of taxonomy gone wrong? Or is there just some minute difference in the DNA that classifies it as a different species despite looking virtually the same? There are differences in the microscopic details of spore size/shape and cystidia, which is what is usually considered important in taxonomic classifications over macroscopic details. Other than that i can't remember, but that's primarily how they are different. http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Section-C...anescens_Oregon http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Section-C...a_Specimen_3_NZ There are a couple of wavy caps in my find earlier in the thread, and in the big patch you can see the bottom-right mushrooms are wavy and the others are not. I think it has more to do with their age and the evironment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alkatrope Posted April 24, 2008 Yeah I see.. Seems to be a slight difference in cystidia mostly. Is there a way to check without a microscope? I'm not sure whether it's subs or cyans I've been finding now, my life might have all been a lie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Øskorei Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) Awesome photo's from Undergrounder, and also the contribution from Re[x] - great camera work, mate ! Edited April 26, 2008 by Øskorei Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted April 24, 2008 The wavy cap seems to be a specific genotype to VIC, I never see any photos of wavy caps from WA or SA, and certainly have never seen anything more than 'maybe a lil wavy but not really' in NSW. I've seen this trait in countless WA specimens - its seems most directly related to the age of the specimen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted April 24, 2008 Yeah I see.. Seems to be a slight difference in cystidia mostly. Is there a way to check without a microscope? I'm not sure whether it's subs or cyans I've been finding now, my life might have all been a lie Another major macro difference appears to be the colour of the stipe (stem) - off grey/dirty white on subs, but snow white on cyans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alkatrope Posted April 24, 2008 Hadn't noticed that. So like, the below are cyans apparently, and I reckon I've seen many of these and considered them all to be just subs.. I guess I haven't been been picking (for photographic reasons, returning them to the ground of course) subs then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undergrounder Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) Alka where have you seen them? as far as i'm concerned, if you find them in Aus or NZ then they're subs and if you find them in America they're cyans.. unless of course someone has created an outdoor patch of cyans from imported prints - which i'm sure happens here and there. I was once convinced that these guys were a different Psilocybe to subs: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uplo..._185_235571.jpg http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uplo...0_185_27407.jpg but after returning to that patch recently and finding these: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uplo...0_185_84903.jpg ...i'm pretty happy with the idea that the environment causes most macroscopic variations within species. For instance the classic 'UFO' shape and long stems associated with Ps. australiana or Ps. eucalypta i've seen on what i think are ordinary subs and i think nowadays its accepted that pretty much all variations of subs in Australia are just the one species, albeit one with a lot of variation. P.S. TBH i can't see the microscopic difference between subaeruginosa and cyanescens, but if you want to find out, Workman should know. There are topics on the shroomery on the subject as well: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.p...r/602440#602440 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.p.../Number/1580566 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.p.../Number/6044921 As you can see most of them have blue meanie (misterZ/Zen peddler) leading the threads so he's another good person to ask. That is if he ever posts here when he's not on the tail end of a long PCP trip. Edited April 24, 2008 by Undergrounder Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MORG Posted April 25, 2008 I've seen this trait in countless WA specimens - its seems most directly related to the age of the specimen... I'm with you on that one Hyphalknot. I've seen similar specimens to your photographs north of Sydney. The caps only become wavy on very mature fruits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted April 25, 2008 Hey Hyphal and MORG, are you sure you guys just aren't mistaking "old fully opened caps" for an actual wavy phenotype as seen in the photos alkatrope posted? Waviness in some VIC subs I have seen and cyanescens doesn't occur only in mature specimens and is quite distinct while the waviness in Hyphals shots is like you said just related to the age of the fruitbody and occurs in pretty much evrery gilled mushroom I've seen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MORG Posted April 25, 2008 Hey Hyphal and MORG, are you sure you guys just aren't mistaking "old fully opened caps" for an actual wavy phenotype as seen in the photos alkatrope posted? Could be. I've never seen a "wavy" cap on a young shroom in Syd, so if the legitimate "wavy" phenotype is expressed in young fruits of the real "wavy" taxon/strain then I'd be willing to accept that the "wavy" caps I've seen are probably just a function of age. "wavy" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alkatrope Posted April 25, 2008 Undergrounder, all specimens I've referred to are from the Wombat State Forest. The first pics you linked to, I have also seen ones similar to this and am pretty sure they are just an unusual genotypic sub. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poo Posted April 26, 2008 Guess I better get out and have a look around... will try not to be too much of an eager Sydney dweller. Thanks for the excellent info guys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Re[x] Posted April 26, 2008 Just had one of the greatest hunts ever! which started here and ended up here found a few of these and saw lots of these Lush. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divinersage Posted April 27, 2008 i went for my first ever hunt this weekend after some good rain but came with no sightings of any subs at all. as disappointing as it was im going to try again next weekend. are golf courses a good place to look? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted April 28, 2008 are golf courses a good place to look? Look in wood chipped, well watered gardens I'm yet to find subs too. Had a few looks (even today), but still havent found any... I'll be on the hunt until I find at least one! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~shameless~ Posted April 28, 2008 GET OUT THERE LADS AND LADIES been pi9ssn down all today and yesterday Today tomorrow and wednesday will be fine days for finding sum subs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divinersage Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Went for another look in some local parklands in the South-East Melbourne suburbs but all i found where these very orange stem-less fungi growing off dead tree wood and a few pointy greyish mushrooms. im guessing neither are active. sorry about the terrible descriptions i am by no means an expert. i took a few photos with my phone might post them up if i can find the dang cord. edit : spelling Edited April 28, 2008 by divinersage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MediSin Posted April 28, 2008 nothing in melbourne, still got a few weeks of waiting til the goodies bloom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted April 28, 2008 nothing in melbourne, still got a few weeks of waiting til the goodies bloom What do you mean? Pics have already been posted of melbourne finds. Besides, it's been fuckin' cold, and fuckin' wet, what else are we waiting for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted April 29, 2008 Went to one of my usual spots today and found nothing. There was a lot more leaf litter than usual, which is usually a good thing, but under the leaf litter was a ton of dry mycelium. Might not have rained as much in this particular area as it did where I spent my weekend too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesus On Peyote Posted April 29, 2008 Just a liiiitle longer i reckon before it gets into full swing in most areas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divinersage Posted April 29, 2008 going for my 3rd scout tommorow, every man and his dog seems to think thats the day to start. im more anxious than a seven year old on christmas eve ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
