Important legal update for NSW and Qld

[gilligan]

Right so all lophs are out. Shit ay. Sad day.

What a load of crock, fucking nanny state tossers. We'll end up with every fricking plant scheduled soon for some reason or another, apart from GM foodcrops. Wonder if they schedule native australian plants - ie acacias?

Teo... Sad day indeed. Some could find a home over this way if needed. They would be well cared for I'd even let them write home...

So lophs are scheduled, what about trichs?

[gilligan]

, gilligan,

I sorta posed that as a rhetorical because of the linkages, but the way it was asked doesn't show that. Sorry.

Shhhh, sleeping doggies, shhhhhh.... Lay down and sleep....

[shruman]

Edited May 1, 2008 by shruman

[Undergrounder]

Shhhh, sleeping doggies, shhhhhh.... Lay down and sleep....

LOL

You should start selling pure Rosamine extract, the active alkaloid in the common Rose and start a thread about how awesome and psychedelic and addictive rosamine is and how people are shelving rose petals and stuff.. and then try and get roses on the banned list.

By the way i consider myself pretty straight-laced and mainstream but these really are fucked up laws. Does the FDA actually do research into what they ban as in an impact assessment of banning/policing a ban, an impact of any use if that actually happens, a cost/benefit analysis or anything? Or do they just do this stuff because they can?

Society really is fucked in so many ways. At least this isn't America, although we're not far off.

[Undergrounder]

I am really trying to avoid answering these questions, BUT......

The more such silly questions get asked the more likely the law will toughen up on these too. Please read this thread. It states quite clearly several times that the previous law already covers EVERYTHING that contains an illegal substance. That obviously includes active Trichs! However, for as long as Trich are not included in the schedule specifically you can probably get away with having them in small numbers. But again, the more often you ask the more likely that sleeping dogs will wake up.

Perhaps make some sections of the forum only appear to 20 post members or whatever? this place does do pretty well in the google search engines. I noticed some threads like the Phleb thread are unlinkable for some reason as if you wanted to stop those turning up in searches. I wonder if there's a simple code to stop threads being publicly viewable if certain keywords are used or something.

Just ideas, don't want to create any more work.

[shruman]

"U might be able to still grow diffusa, not real sure though."

Yeah sorry the act actualy states "Lophophora (peyote)".

This fucking sux, one by one the states will fall, REVOLT, REVOLT NOW!, its the only way, VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

[incognito]

i see kava pills are stillbeing sold in healthfood stores in nsw for anxiety/sleep disorders?

[Torsten]

i see kava pills are stillbeing sold in healthfood stores in nsw for anxiety/sleep disorders?

??? I don't think anyone actually said the law has changed. When the TGA makes a decision it usually takes 3, 4 or 6 months to take effect [ie after the notice has been gazetted].

[teonanacatl]

So when does the new loph laws come in?

[teonanacatl]

Ok well I just piled my collection up and burned them all so none left.

thanks torsten

Edited March 29, 2008 by teonanacatl

[Torsten]

LOL. I keep getting the images and odours of the 'Bogan' cactus [charred and smokey].

[Jesus On Peyote]

We where talking about this in the youtube thread.

This is Bullshit

[Torsten]

I've had a flurry of PMs asking me why I am so sure about "plants that contain a scheduled substance" being illegal even if they are not specifically named in the schedule.

two reasons.

When I got raided by the ACC 6 months ago the agents were Qld drug force officers seconded to the ACC. They were not aware of the differences in the plant drug law between Qld and NSW and demanded to confiscate my peyote and ephedra plants. I refused and they had to refer to the NSW health ministry to get a ruling, which resulted in me being able to keep my plants. In the meantime they explained to me what the Qld drug law is in regards to such plants. They even took photos of the plants - and of themselves posing in front of my collection

The very prominent and expensive solicitor I got to get advice regarding ACC matters is Qld based and I asked him about the drug laws in respect to these matters as well.

So, please note that the interpretation of the Qld law is not my own, but that used by the Qld drug squad and that as my solicitor understands it. If you have a solicitor that says otherwise then I suggest you get it in writing to cover your ass. I am not interested in having lengthy discussion about "why I must be wrong". So far I have been right about every legal interpretation I have posted except one [where I realised my mistake as soon as pointed out], so please excuse me if I find such exchanges a little dull.

[Jesus On Peyote]

damn that sounded like a draining experience T

[teonanacatl]

Ive posted a sticky about it in the cacti forum.

also found it interesting in the QLD legislation that psilocybe mushrooms were not specifically named but rather just psilocin and psilocybin.

Edited March 30, 2008 by teonanacatl

[Torsten]

Ive posted a sticky about it in the cacti forum.

also found it interesting in the QLD legislation that psilocybe mushrooms were not specifically named but rather just psilocin and psilocybin.

Most states only schedule the constituents rather than the species. It's a broader and more flexible way of prohibiting things.

[Torsten]

damn that sounded like a draining experience T

Not the most exciting 4 hours of my life, but it does come close. I learnt a lot in that short period of time. Like how state cops do interviews [on camera] and how they try and trap you with putting words in your mouth, how feds search premises, what they see and what they don't see, that they can't tell Tarragon from Ephedra, and that they aren't always right and you need to stand up for your rights [but first you have to know your rights].

Also, no matter how prepared you are for it, when it happens it still throws you for six. I am sure I went pretty close to losing it for a week or two after the event.

[puck]

So it's official. Legally speaking, we are all criminals, for constant possession of N,N-dimethyltryptamine? not only are we criminals, technically speaking, we are illegal? our brains contain an illegal substance, therefore our brains are illegal.

this is fucken tripped out and twisted, and it needs to be fought in the fucken High Court before we lose all our rights altogether.

[Jesus On Peyote]

I get ya T, i get shook up just being talked to by police most times, with no chance of me actually getting done for anything. so i can only imagine a full raid. bastardos.

If they can take away cacti, god knows what else their planning nationwide.

[husk]

hey guys, i'm very saddened to hear this.

well, i came across this old post from T on a discussion about salivia and it status in Aus/US:

"Salvia was scheduled in australia before most people got to try it. hence it is now an obscure and very rare herb. The only way to create change is with critical mass. There is little hope of that in australia for salvia because it did not saturate deep enough. In my opinion the most important way we have to fight this battle is to keep the plants legal for as long as possible while distributing them as efficiently as possible. 'Fun' videos and reckless advertising can speed up the scheduling process. Sad thing is it only tkes one stupid video/website/poster etc to set perceptions that can be detrimental to the work of many, many others."

the bold part is what i want to bring attention to.

T, do you think Lophs have 'saturated deep enough' in Aus?

to me it seems that the majority of posts on this board from Australian members is usually related in some way to an ever growing love of these and other cacti, particularly beyond or even apart from any effects felt from injestion.

personally i have seen my affection grow uncontrolably for these and other sacred cacti of the Americas in just the past 12 months, especially after experiencing first hand the power that they and other 'similar' cacti can bestow upon one's self... in the aformentioned continent of course.

in fact i would say those experiences have had the most influence on my spirit and worldy understandings in my recent adulthood, which is not to say that i would continue to consume said cacti for such purposes.

actually i don't feel the need to now or ever again for that matter, which is most likey due to the circumstances of its use, much like i wouldn't take a hypothetical philosophy lesson over and over again because i have already learnt from it the first time, though i might chose to discuss it and revisit it some ways just like i may feel the same power and awe from just being in the presence of the cacti, which i do.

sorry for being so long winded, but what im getting at is this; would anyone here, particularly those in Qld/ACT feel the impetus to say perhaps fight this outright restriction of lophs maybe with application of critical mass? if so, how, when and where?

how would we show or should we show condemnation of this law and support of our freedom to possess a cactus?

is mardigrass the be all and end all of ethnobotanical demonstrations?

has the native american church already set a too specific precedent in the only 'lawful' use/possession of this cacti?

Edited March 31, 2008 by husk

[Jonny Deformed]

It states quite clearly several times that the previous law already covers EVERYTHING that contains an illegal substance. That obviously includes active Trichs!

Someone better call bunnings and give them the heads up, while you're at it might as well ring round all your local cactus societies and nurseries..

[naja naja]

And I'm sure all the avide cacti collectors will be thrilled to know they now have to destroy there 50+ year old loph that they grew lovingly from seed and would have throttled anyone who even contemplated destroying it for consumption.

Have the specific penalties regarding number of plants/weight dry/mescaline content been announced for these diff plants, loph, ephedra, khat, etc? Like.. Does any judge, at present, have any reference to refer to in regards to applying the law and what Max/Min penalties a defendant can recieve for their perceived crimes? Or should we just assume for now that whole weight of plant may be considered entirely the sceduled substance and will be prosecuted the same for 50g of cathinone as 50g of khat material? What about dried khat where the cathinone has degraded into (I think, from memory) norpseudoephidrine amongst other things? Would u then be charged for the degraded product upon analysis or would they just assume it still contained the original substance it did when it was fresh?

P.S. What pharmacutical company or religious body requested these plants be sceduled? Is that info avail through freedom of information act? Is there any avenue for having certain pharma's assessed and possibly banned if found to be too profitable ahem I mean dangerous? Oh just wait, I remember now.... Stillnox, we'll make em put a warning on the back that most people never read anyway. That'll show the public we're concerned about their welbeing. After all, it's in there best interest to keep the youth on alcohol binge drinking on W,ends (even though that's suposedly government controlled for 18+, we all know the kiddies till get their hands on it. Hell, most parents buy it for them! It can't be that bad anyway right, it's legal) By keeping a decent amount of the population dumbed up so they can't ever get a decent job and the military actually looks like a good option to help fill the falling recruitment numbers needed for actual soldiers willing to be mind washed into killing innocent people in the name of bush, I mean oil, shit, damn I mean liberating them from the evil dictator who had too much oil. I mean, fuck tibet and mozambeque, they don't have any resources we need and the media doesn't cover them (accept maybe if the Olimpics are on, damn that sincronized swimming is sum mad ass shit. Deff worth a gold medal, I digress further) I forget now, I'm rambling, fucking dumbshit asshole fuckers wanna keep my, shit! there I go again, I mean their body running just the way they like it.

Ya know wat I rekon is a really good idea...... Lets privatize prisons like they have in the US, seems to have worked well there for getting those free thinking, tree hugging, animal loving(doesn't it make u sick), goddamn hippies(thanku cartman) off OUR LAND and into jail with all the abo's where they belong! Drugism, it's the new racism! Experience it's refreshing delights, best enjoyed served with a ciggarette, a beer and a side order of prescription anti'depressants and Valium all located in our Christian society that loves all people, there I go again, I mean white people, especially young boys about the age of 7-14 when they are still nice and tight. In WA heaps o people had been charged under the misinterperatation of the law for the past 14 years that said Vailum was illegal to posess without script, it wasn't until that Ben Cousins nobody got busted with a few tabs of val they then realized their mistake that it was only illeal if in ijectable form and let him off and advertised, albeit quietly, for anybody who had been charged in the pass 14 years for this offence to come in and get their record wiped. Shows that even laws can be incorrectly enforced. Even the police/judges are not able to correctly interperate the fuct up wording used by the government unless ofcourse it's one of our state footballing hero's, we'd all be proud for our kids to go up like him.

Ah fuckit, their cuntiful people. I love how they protect me from these dangerous nurserymen while MY local boys in blue provide a community service by protection the local meth dealers.

Edited March 31, 2008 by naja naja

[Jonny Deformed]

I can legally sit on my arse in front idiot box a watching grown men who are supposable "good role models" physically hurt each other in the name of sport and entertainment (Rugby, Boxing etc).

I can legally smoke and drink myself stupid while I'm at it.

But when i want to execute what i consider a pretty basic human right ie, grow a plant. I can't because of fears of fines that would cripple me and possible jail time.

Seriously, WTF?

[Jesus On Peyote]

We need to have a meeting of minds at the next EGA or even make another yearly event to talk about action that can be taken to stop and reverse these kinds of ridicules laws .

i donno how ittle work or if it would even make a difference, but this is crazy. i havent felt so, i donno the word for it. offended? oppressed or whatever you wanna call it in a long time.

Im not in the affected areas (yet) but im willing to go as far as i can to do SOMETHING.

[Yeti101]

I agree that we need to think about what the best plan of action is. The trouble is that it's very rare to have the decision to make something illegal reversed - I'm pretty sure most politicians only know and understand the process of making more things illegal. If I had to guess, I'd say you would have to argue that a given plant has a low abuse potential (in its unprocessed form) and its active has similaraly low abuse potential and that it is such a small problem that it is a waste of time and resources to police it. In the past I might have said also that the plant has a similar abuse potential to things that are legal such as alcohol, but that seeing as KRudd is outwardly down on booze it probably wouln't help much.

In the meantime we need to seriously need to look at what is said (and where/how) to avoid bad publicity or official attention. But we also need to balance the secrecy against our ability to educate the community - you can't 'saturate' the community if they don't know you exist (But moving towards the critical mass is the quickest way to get the powers that be breathing down your neck).

Either way - now is not the time to name things that have so far avoided the the fate of the Lophs by asking stupid questions.