Severe tissue damage caused by wetting agent

[BlackDragon]

Heyall

Im in a bit of a state at the moment I just walked out the back to see my bed of M&d's and tbm not looking so healthy In fact they looked fucd.

I had just finished the new bed for them a few days ago, and treated the soil with a hardcore wetting agent. While watering in the wetting agent i of course poured some "over" my cacti as its hard to just concentrate on the soil without getting the cacti wet at all. I thought to myself as i was pouring the stuff all over "shit, i wonder what will happen to the waxes of the cacti with such a strong surfactant?" well, i guess i shouldnt have thought that thought, i may have doomed my whole patch to the graveyard.

Seems the surfactant has stripped or disrupted the waxy layer of the plants, causing massive blistering and burning or the skin. The whole row of M&d is badly effected(20+plants), and some tbms are looking decidedly fuckd. BIG black blotches and the skin is blistering. Looks like the worst attack of black death ive ever seen mixed with badly scalded skin. Im not a happy camper and i assume the cacti are hurtin too!! Even the old stumps have discoloured and look blisterd.

I dont know what to do, Ive never done something like this before. Its a three year old bed and its my main propagation bed for M&d and my tbms. Im in a mess.

I think the only thing i can do is maybe put some shade cloth on them for the next few days( 34C+ here for a few days) to halt the burning, they are event scalding on the shaded side of the plant so im not sure that will help.

Arghhh!!! I think ill just have to wait it out and watch the destruction happen infront of me, and hope for the best. Im not keen on loosing 50+foot of M&D tho

I just wanted to let everyone know that its a possible danger/problem if you use strong wetting agents. My friend has had no problem using the same product, yet he doesnt get the full brunt of the hot sun at his location. I even washed off(not that that will do much) the remaining solution as i watered in the first application. That didnt help much either.

Ah well, back to the drawing board..... Hopefully the strong littl'ns will shine thru in the long run, theyy just look so sore and in pain at the moment!!

Bd

[gerbil]

ouch that really sucks BD

My only thought was what you said, shade them and flush the skin as much as possible.

Hopefully given the warm dry weather they get a chance to recover before winter sets in and avoid major infections, then come back to life in the spring.

It's never easy when something like this happens, only growers themselves understand the pain and frustration.

I suppose as a last effort, monitor as much as possible and isolate healthy cuts if the plants start to fully die and hope the remaining stumps recover.

Shit, very sorry to hear this mate.

thankyou for the warning though

[BlackDragon]

Heres some pics of the damage so far...

Lets hope it slows down, its only the third day since ive noticed the difference from nice healthy plants to this.

[XipeTotec]

ewwwwwwwwww

[Torsten]

definitely provide shade. I presume you have washed the stuff off thoroughly?

Not much else you can do really. But at least it is dry down there so you shouldn't get too much rampant rot.

[Vertmorpheus]

I never use wetting agents, either they fuck with waxes as you said (half the water repellant soil around acts like that because of wax like substances on the particles) cause nasty arse sunburns, nastier ones seem to really piss off soil life and some plants with repeated treatment seem to get some kind of vascular condition where they cant seem to mobilise things to their tips as well as the yshould... its like the stems get lazy and forget how to transport normal fluids without having the soapy shit mixed in, esp Apocynaceae things? Probably not as much ofa hassle if you use top notch stuff and not very often either.

On the other hand, adding agent to say fungicide sprays, roundup, things like that can really help save you a lot of water, just a few drops will massively improve covering ability and absorption, seems to reduce the amount of fine vapour and spray drift a bit too... but I don't use it on the aerial parts of anything without expecting some kind of damage or complications, esp with repeated or poorly timed use in terms of sun exposure, humidity etc.

Aloe vera can be pulped and added to water to make it a lot "stickier" for sprays etc, its also a reasonably safe bittering agent and some plants in high light levels really see mto dig a thin film of it.. not so good for hairy or fine-spined plants and ive never tried it on cacs... but it might come in handy as a temporary "pair of sunnies" for a couple of those damaged cacs, just for testing purposes?

Most soils that seem to need agent would benefit more from having coarse sand and more OM mixed in, being aerated a lil before use and making more use of groundbreaking pre-plantings, deep rooted tough plants that can do the digging for you.

Hope things get better before they get worse, sad stuff! Thanks for sharing your pain...

VM

[gilligan]

Damn, dude - that sux arse...

I'm glad you put it on here though, cos i was gonna be giving the garden in general a dose of wetting agent, and would've most likely whacked some around the cacti as well... PHEW!

Hopefully it picks up again, and this is only a minor setback. Washing and shade would be the first things that i'd go with, i like VM's idea about the aloe though - could be something to try - maybe something good comes of something bad?

Fingers crossed for you and your cacti

[Vertmorpheus]

You can certainly use most brands of it once or twice without causing any serious hassles in most gardens but if you really value your dirt herds, it can be more rewarding to just make better soil to start with. In short term pot culture, etc, or with infrequent use you will rarely getany problems, but in more intensive situations, or use in long term like treebags etc, it can do some nasty things... and foliage hates some brands esp anything thats basically repacked detergent, rather than a non ionic formula.

The aloe thing isn't precise, but it seems to work much like Envy... pulp a plant, swish around like mad in a bucket, strain it and use that, either just watered in (dilute til its just a bit soapy, if you get what I mean) or a bit of a stiffer mix will work well if you have some old spray gear you arent concerned about gumming up a little bit... open it right up and drown foliage before transplanting and in times of those horrible hot dry winds, etc. Works well for the bugs too, possums hate it so its good for keeping them off your tomatos, etc. It saved my big potted coffee plant when it was all scorched and keeps the bean bugs off my brugs (frequent app, but at least its all organic and actually good to get on your skin!).

Spot test and fiddle with recipe of course, dont just mix it up and drown your plants then come back hating me if their heads fall off. Maybe pick a couple victims and just make a small batch, apply it with a brush to affected areas and surrounds? I've never used it on cacs before.

VM

Edited February 17, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[Conan Troutman]

thats nasty..good idea to pretreat the soil instead

[recondite]

I've had an outbreak like that after using some Safers soap on some nearby plants. Some overspray got on a couple of my pach's and tbm's and I got a real nasty weeping rot infection. It didn't spread too much, but it's still pretty fugly. Its been about two months now and the majority of it has scarred over now. I just kept them dry and let them go, no shading or nothing.

[gilligan]

BD... can you provide an update on the M&D's and their plight? Interested to see how they survived, and what you ended up doing to assist them?

Hope they are well