Fenris Posted February 6, 2008 I have access through work to some STRONG radioactive sources and an X-ray generator and I was wondering about subjecting a growing cactus to some gamma radiation, Dr David Banner style. Everyone seems pretty keen on mutant varieties of cacti so I thought I might try and make my own. I was thinking of bringing a healthy cactus to work and irradiating it with an intense radiation burst over a short period of time to see what sort of mutations if any would occur in the growing cactus. Is this a crazy idea that will never work, or should I take the risk of using the equipment for non work related endeavours in the attempt of creating a mutant cactus. Cue evil scientist laugh, mwha ha ha ha ha ha. The test cactus will be called Dr Banner Dr. David Banner: physician; scientist; cactus. Searching for a way to tap into the hidden strengths that all cactus have. Then an intentional overdose of gamma radiation alters his column chemistry. And now when David Banner grows angry, outraged or a bit too spiky, a startling metamorphosis occurs. The cactus is driven by rage and pursued by an investigative reporter and a throng of psychonauts. ( "Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.") The mutant cactus creature is wanted for a psychedelic awakening he didn't commit. David Banner is believed to be inactive, and he must let the world think that he is inactive, until he can find a way to control the raging spirit that dwells within him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 6, 2008 I think I could russle up a T. pachanoi (PC) if you'd be interested? Certainly an interesting project, but I have a very strong feeling it would have little to no effect on the specimen. But, if you are keen on nuking a cactus in the name of science[fiction], I'd be happy to provide a patient PM if interested. Muhahahahahaaa!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 7, 2008 Cool, youll have to find some rippable denim for the cuttings afterwards though, for full effect. I'll be running caveman-tek Autumn Crocus tests on some cac seed in the near future, just trying to accumulate some decent numbers of a fairly reliable basic species, seeds that is..let yez know how it goes. Any donations of 2 or 3 hundred relatively fast growing columnar seed puts you in the running for my left nut VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 7, 2008 A dude on the shroomery is trying to create a Polyploidy Lophophora. What would be a practical way to start off a large amount of cacti seeds?What is generally used for LW seed germinating? i was thinking just moist sandy soil with some bottom heat after soaking the seeds for 24 hours half normal water the other half with a small amount of Colchicine in order to produce some twisted lil babys. My other question is it worth it to kill off a lot of endangored cacti just to have some cool looking crazy cacti? I think not,but this all depends on if the how many seeds the Colchicine would be expected to destroy. if it was like 5% that would be an exceptable loss,but im assuming it would be alot higher. Seems along the same lines... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 7, 2008 I think there'd be a lot more action to be found in a colchicine laden batch of seeds rather than in gamma/X-ray radiation. is it worth it to kill off a lot of endangored cacti just to have some cool looking crazy cacti? Well, I think we'd mostly be dealing with trichs (which would be more interesting to experiment on anyway IMO, faster growth, taller specimens, etc), so you wouldnt be too worried about them being endangered. But yes, I think it's well worth a few losses if one has enough seeds if there is something completely new and bizarre to be found. After all, maybe we will find/mutate a cactus that cures cancer! Without risk we get nowhere. A few losses for a greater good is definately worth a shot. Especially when talking cacti. Each trich fruit contains huge amounts of seed - just one fruit worth of seed could be spared for a bit of experimentation After all, I'm sure there is that much Trich material about the place anyway, which wouldnt be here without cactus nutters like us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted February 7, 2008 Yeah polyploidal Trich's would be cool, might come up with a pachanoi equivalent of the now infamous TBM. I was thinking of giving it a go when I can afford some seed, was going to use trifluralin rather than crocus-tea though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 7, 2008 Talk to the dude on the shroomery... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 7, 2008 Well thus far any mislabelled or questionable seed has gone into the "freaky future fund". Was planning on using my old style routine at 1/5th the strength..see what happens I guess.Much smaller seeds than most I've tried it with in the past and being much simplified (externally) plants any changes would be readily noticeable earlier on, etc. Despite reports I personally haven't found you need a high mortality rate to get any kind of mutations... many plant species have had probably a 20 percent rate of oddities with 80 percent germing overall... some are too weird to live of course and die pretty fast. The fun thing with simply bulb treatments is the results are instant... a week later you know how things went, to some extent...germ times seem unaffected though time to emerge from the soil can be changed a bit if things are going truly haywire. Let yez know. Any donations gratefully appreciated VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 7, 2008 This is very strange... What is the point of all this? Just kinda cool? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 7, 2008 What is the point of all this? A little novelty amongst a fairly mundane subject All in the name of finding/creating something unusual, which is pretty much the highlight of every cacti-collectors day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 7, 2008 Yeah what he said haha... think about how popular a crested loph or pach or a monstrose just about anything is... It'd be nice to be the originator of something that thuosands of people end up falling in love with! Or just to make something really beautiful to share with the likeminded I guess. I want a Trichocereus bridgesii var. Vertmorphia to be gracing every set of steps in the country by 2015 Also remember its harder to purge all the wolves from an area, when many are dressed as sheep. In addition I have a personal suspicion that some aspects of the magic of a cactus lies in the relative amount of its volume is dedicated to active growth and "decision making" ;) Might be wrong. It's something we can find out along the way though. And its fun making frankenplants... it gives me an outlet for my Nordic/Teutonic inclinations VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 7, 2008 A little novelty amongst a fairly mundane subject Mundane? Holy shit....my head spins with all the info I try to collect... I'm trying to brew beer, grow "lost peyotes", cure tobacco...all kinds of shit... In addition I have a personal suspicion that some aspects of the magic of a cactus lies in the relative amount of its volume is dedicated to active growth and "decision making" Hmm....go on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 7, 2008 lol, as in I ahve a suspicion there is a link between meristematic concentration and alkaloid production, similar to the way that some other plants tend to keep a store of dont-eat-me chems in their newer, sappier growth... and leave it in more stable forms in older growth. Just some lay speculation,but we all need our hobbies. I have absolutely no "proof" of this, just an instinctive suspicion. Whether it its a matter of making more goodies, or just more precursors and potentiators of goodies, I can't say. But I suspect the latter. That aside, I just have an affinity for my fellow freaks of nature, haha. VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 7, 2008 Mundane? Holy shit....my head spins with all the info I try to collect... Haha, I knew someone would pull me up on using such a harsh word for these things. I was more referring to the fact that most cacti are usually so slow growing that from day to day they barely move. A monster addition to the collection is sometimes exactly what the doc ordered to get things exciting again Definately not a mundane hobby, just somewhat slow at times - but I guess you get that working with some of the slowest growing plants on earth Thats why we all have a side project or two to fill in the time between watering/grafting/repotting/fertilising/taking cuttings/germinating/etc. Some of us like knitting, some like rebuilding old cars. We like creating freaks of nature Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted February 7, 2008 My "Lost Peyotes" project... Is very slow and boring as far as growing goes.... But the amount of information I have to shift through is just.....crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 8, 2008 My "Lost Peyotes" project... Is very slow and boring Not that that has a whole lot to do with the topic at hand, but if you dont feel you have the long term commitment to such an endevour, either find a way to refocus from time to time, simply find another area of interest or undertake a less involved project. I told you a while back that growing cacti is a long term commitment that takes a lot of dedication, perticularly if you want to do such an advanced project. You best bet would be to divide the whole thing into smaller projects and complete one at a time. That way if you give up halfway through the overall project, at least there will be something to show with a few miniprojects being complete. It'd also help to keep you focused because you can see the progress before you. Anyway, that has nothing to do with creating genetically mutated plants, so lets try not to hijack a good thread and get back to the topic at hand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 8, 2008 Yeah once you're fiddlin with things for a while, you end up with a kinda fishscale effect to your lil projects and studies... finishing a couple and starting a couple on any given week... and once youve worked out hwo to cure tobacco (hint.. half of that is in the N you deprive em of in the last week before chopping), make good beer (keep it simple!) and reinstate lophs to their former wild glory (i did that last week, piece of piss ) then you can get onto fucking with gods sense of harmony for a laugh As for mundane... I get what youre saying... once you get it home and ID'd and its happy in its spot, things level out for a while... and once you have a dozen columnars, they all tend to lookk a lil the same... its nice to have the mutant counterpart for contrast. but yeah as far as hobbies its probably slightly less stimulating than say skydiving or casual sex romps... not that I've had an aerial sex romp with a mutant of late, but its nice to have reasonable dreams isnt it? Also, making my own mutants along with non mutants means I can compare growth rates and possible level of magic. And theyre purdy in that "have you seen the mutating scenes in Akira?" kinda way. I used to play more with rainforest and subtropical plants but what with nazi style water restrictions, its easier not to bother haha. Stick to things I can water with a teaspoon! Thus far I have accumulated some T.candicans, T. huasca and T. pach seed... waiting on one of my dragonfruit (H.undatus) clumps to finish flowering and start fruiting so I can play with those too... pretty simple tek, I just water in the beans with water to which is added a chopped bulb or two.. worked very nicely in the past ;) Hardly rocket surgery or time -consuming... prep tubs, plant seeds, water in, wait a couple weeks and I'll know either way. And given I can start a couple thousand individual seeds in a couple square feet, its hardly making a major dent in my living quarters, haha. Probably more absorbing if youre into the taking of notes and the measuring of compounds... here at the Research Division of Doorknob Industries we like to keep things simple VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tassiejd Posted February 8, 2008 my thoughts are on this that even if you create a mutant the chances of seeds of the mutant keeping the mutations would be fairly low, While you might make yourself a few interesting mutants the possibility of making a strain of mutants so to speak probably wont happen, however dont let me stop you as im interested in the results of this as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted February 8, 2008 Totally see and agree with that comment JD, but dont forget that a strain is usually best kept/spread via vegetative clones/cuttings (and also usually the fastest way to reproduce it). Just think of regular TBMs - they never set seed yet are one of the most commonly sought after mutants in the cacti world. They simply spread via folks like you and me taking cuttings I dont think that anyone is looking to create a whole new species, just create mutated forms of the species tested on to both play god and hopefully create a new clone that has a strange/desirable trait. Be it in apprearance, alkaloid profile, etc. Lots of reasons why this sort of experimentation is definately worth performing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Thassit... I dont expect to make a new superrace of cacti... simply some loveable hunchbacks to be asexually prop'd later on, depending n success n rates etc. Most cultvated varieties of many kinds of plants sold in the nursery trade that had their origins in seed treatment etc, are veg. propd to this day... seeds tend to be either non viable, ie they dont pop OR they do but the offspring is so fucked up it cant handle being alive... or they revert to very standardised forms of the species albeit sometimes much larger or smaller in some regards. The ntheres the issue that some plants in common cultivation are naturally occuring polyploid, haploid, diploid, tetraploid forms... which is half the fun, cos without checking in advance u never quite knnow what will or wont be affected by the Magic Watering Can. Past experience in colch treatment of many kinds of seeds has indicated that any mutant traits exhibited from the get-go, whilst some do fade and sometimes things can look normal for ages and then go crazy... generally stay pretty stable in vegetatively prop'd specimens. I couldnt tell you about viability of seed etc as none have ever been allowed to seed. Good times VM Edited February 8, 2008 by Vertmorpheus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted February 8, 2008 aren't u afraid that they may eat us? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted February 8, 2008 Hey Vert, PM me your addy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertmorpheus Posted February 8, 2008 Afraid...quietly hopeful... some emotions are so alike its hard to tell em apart Ask me later, when the monster is lurching towards the sleepy little village. If I ever suddenly stop posting, you'll know why. PM'd, S (not to sound bitchy) VM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marsha Posted February 9, 2008 i recon fenris has been putting his dick in the gamma radiator! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fenris Posted February 10, 2008 Cheeky bugger There is no mystery behind my impressive endowment, I certainly didn't have to subject it to strange and unusual punishment. There is a saying we have in Ireland. Big man big cock, little man, all cock. No need to be envious. I hear doctors can do wonders with a suction pump and some silicon implants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
