Am I Un-Australian??

[husk]

Does anyone else here feel slightly oppressed when referred to, in contrast to another widely regarded more spiritual native person of this country?

If Australia Day is offensive to indigenous Australians then could not Invasion Day be offensive to non-indigenous Australians?

Is that the point?

Does anyone see a lack of reconciliation in this idea conveyed by ANTaR with their 'Invasion Day Events'?

Do any of you feel particularly un-Australian today?

Edited January 26, 2008 by husk

[incognito]

i think that mcuh of australias history has been conveniently swept under the rug. truth is aboriginals where slaughtered like chickens less that 2 lifetimes ago, and i think if u wanna be a voting tip top aussie u have to recognise this took place. good on them for sticking a little reality in white australias fat lazy face.

i mean even germany paid compensation andsaidsorry to thejews,a 'reconciliation' as twere'.

the reality the butcheryand torment is still more than vivid in the aboriginal psyche, and until a reconcilliation' takes place these wounds will still be beuried, and unhealed.

i am glad i live in australiua, we are very very lucky to have the freedom we enjoy, but proud to be an aussie, sometimes no.

[husk]

but were the convicts we descended from not treated just as poorly?

should it have to be a black and a white thing?

should not all Australians with a reason to fight get given the same recognition?

and when did it become that all 'white' people are responsible.

i'm trying to convey a similar oppression, albiet not as severe, but in theory just the same when we must automatically obey all laws and cultural definitions like we agreed on them because the government is 'white' and we are too?

sometimes i feel like my spirituality if it is not Christian is not really recognised by anyone.

does it sound stupid that i have a spiritual connection, or better yet, a spiritual foundation in this land and as such should not be referred to as 'european/white/colonialist' but 'indigenous' also?

i mean is myculture not oppressed by the capitalist, consumer 'culture' and it's laws that supposedly define the non-indigenous element of this country?

am i too much of an individualist to ever be part of somthing more?

Edited January 26, 2008 by husk

[chilli]

Does anyone else here feel slightly oppressed when referred to, in contrast to another widely regarded more spiritual native person of this country?

If Australia Day is offensive to indigenous Australians then could not Invasion Day be offensive to non-indigenous Australians?

Is that the point?

Does anyone see a lack of reconciliation in this idea conveyed by ANTaR with their 'Invasion Day Events'?

Do any of you feel particularly un-Australian today?

Didn't even know it was Australia day, so I guess that makes me a fucking flag burning homosexual black communist sympathizer.

I don't think the motivation is solely to cause offense, but is a subversive tool to bring attention to a usually overlooked fact... Australia day is a celebration of the day white folks invaded and started massacring indigenous people and their culture. It seems to be working.

Personally, I love offending hypocrites and bigots, but why not just make a new holiday called Patriot of Truth Day, where everyone just celebrates how much they love their country which they can demonstrate by getting pissed as hell and bashing everyone they think isn't Australian enough, or just anyone that walks by.

The way I see it, reconciliation is an imprecise term anyway and remorse or restitution would be a lot more accurate description of what is needed.

*edit*

Husk, I just read your second post and I guess I know what you're saying, but I think using the struggles of aboriginals to frame your own is a bad move and will only make you sound resentful or ignorant... I'm not saying you are, and as I said I think I understand what you're saying, I just think you are maybe putting it awkwardly... for instance, feeling as though you have a spiritual connection to the land would hardly qualify someone as indigenous.

Edited January 26, 2008 by IllegalBrain

[husk]

*edit*

Husk, I just read your second post and I guess I know what you're saying, but I think using the struggles of aboriginals to frame your own is a bad move and will only make you sound resentful or ignorant... I'm not saying you are, and as I said I think I understand what you're saying, I just think you are maybe putting it awkwardly... for instance, feeling as though you have a spiritual connection to the land should hardly qualify someone as indigenous.

i appreciate yr edit brain, i can understand that it can be dicey to compare oneself's struggle to another who has been more blatanty abused in everyway. but i feel that there is a side to this huge story in this country that isn't heard.

it seems yr either *utterly ashamed and standing with the aboriginals or yr a flaming racist who doesn't want to hear it!

*and i have been on many an occasion and yet year after year i become more and more dejected.

it might sound weird but i don't think of or refer to myself as 'white' until these issues are brought up, and then all i feel is offense and shame because the debate is so generalised that i find myself being grouped in with the likes of extremely racist anglo saxons purely for being 'white' and far, far, far removed from seeing myself as i usually do as a earthly spiritual human being desperate to live as i understand the traditional aborignial ways to be and must say it feels oppressive.

brain it may not be to the same degree but can u see how it is similar?

i am not racist, aggressive or sensationalist, if anyone believes my first post to be as such, it is without intention.

peace x

Edited January 26, 2008 by husk

[husk]

please don't bother replying to this thread.

i regret starting it.

i have been misunderstood all my life, it is stupid to think it would ever change, especially on the fucking web.

peace ppls, happy whatever flipping day it is you celebrate x

[XipeTotec]

truth is aboriginals where slaughtered like chickens less that 2 lifetimes ago,

that actually works out 5 lifetimes ago in aboriginal lifetimes

[chilli]

i appreciate yr edit brain, i can understand that it can be dicey to compare oneself's struggle to another who has been more blatanty abused in everyway. but i feel that there is a side to this huge story in this country that isn't heard.

it seems yr either *utterly ashamed and standing with the aboriginals or yr a flaming racist who doesn't want to hear it!

*and i have been on many an occasion and yet year after year i become more and more dejected.

it might sound weird but i don't think of or refer to myself as 'white' until these issues are brought up, and then all i feel is offense and shame because the debate is so generalised that i find myself being grouped in with the likes of extremely racist anglo saxons purely for being 'white' and far, far, far removed from seeing myself as i usually do as a earthly spiritual human being desperate to live as i understand the traditional aborignial ways to be and must say it feels oppressive.

brain it may not be to the same degree but can u see how it is similar?

i am not racist, aggressive or sensationalist, if anyone believes my first post to be as such, it is without intention.

peace x

Bro, I doubt anyone here who has read your posts thinks you are aggressive or racist etc... I wasn't making reference to you when I mentioned bigots etc.

Also, I don't feel ashamed of being white or anything else, and I don't think shame is necessary or desired by those seeking reconciliation... just acknowledgment of the complexity and gravity of the issues at stake and a willingness to make things better.

I can definitely see how what you have experienced is similar... reverse racism is real and it's stupid, but it's also a bit more understandable and justified than the more common kind... still, if anyone judges you or makes you feel ashamed because of the color of your skin whether black brown or white they are not worth your time.

Don't bother trying to be a part of anything, just keep being who you are.

[Vertmorpheus]

big post, take with water after eating...

Good topic Husk, and as an aussie that happens to be indigenous you sound neither racist or un australian. If anything, I think looking at the standard line and thinking "why does that sound like bullshit" is probably an admirable trait for anyone of any nationality! Feeling lumped together as "white australia" is just as brainless in some senses as lumping an educated, financially ok, well fed, healthy, urbanised person in with someone whos possessions amount to a fishing knife and a beer fridge and has neverb een to school as "aboriginal australia". They're meathead terms, the media love em as they....cater to the meatheads. Anyone that ISNT a meathead doesnt need to learn about massive social issues via 25 second sound bites.

As an indigenous aussie (which wasnt my decision, and it wasnt most peoples decision to be born here either... the only people with any real concept of Australia Day are people becoming citizens, choosing the life as it were) it does shit me that the whole invasion/sorry day thing upsets some people, makes them either feel bad or kinda worry if theyre meant to feel bad, but dont, etc... personally I think that if you're not a racist fucker who can look past someones skin or accent or whatever to see them as someones son or daughter, and you are aware of the "invasion issue" and the rough history of it all, then theres no issue , and it doesnt in a sense apply to you or anyone else like that. It applies to anyone that either has no idea, or has a headful of bullshit thanks to their parents, the media, selective teaching of history, etc... a lot of it comes down to the word games of it all, for which I can say that in the sense the "original users" of the word reconcilliation meant it, the word doesnt mean "lets all hang out and have a big wankfest with handshakes and old women shaking boobies at federal members and then we all feel better about being the product of rape and dehumanising practices"... it means reconcile in the more financial sense... the moral and social ledger that needs balancing out before any more "profit" can be made by the stakeholders. The financial thing comes into it too, but its a lot more and a lot less grabby than people more on the outside tend to imagine. I personally think of Australia Day as Australia Day, and it comes with some serious multiracial overtones haha...thats about it. Someone wants to call it invasion day thats cool too, and if youre offended by it, tell em. Thats part of being Australian, we can verbal each other about things without immediately forming into armed squads and making each other dig our own graves in the forest... we got all THAT out of our systems, remember.

The other word is "sorry". It isnt meant to mean "sorry" in the standard aussie english sense...yknow, when someone runs you over with a shopping trolley and you say "sorry!"... its meant sorry as in... "ah fuck, thats a big sorry hole full of muck and horrible shit." But somewhere along the line certain more... socialistically inclined (not to name names) sections of the "movement" in collusion knowing or otherwise with certain sections of the media got into the concept of a verbal apology, a statement of "our bad" for the sins of the past... I can tell you that to a lot of blackfellas, well off an dirt poor, the people that pushed that line are seen in a certain light and its not very kind... the term "guevara complex" comes up a bit at certain barbecues, anyway. To be honest, I dont hold Kevin Rudd, or Jono, or the bloke next door personally to blame for the fact that their various ancestors may or may not have sold my family for cash, rum, smokes... hunted us for sport, took us for skins, sent us to london and had us taxidermied, declared as as animals that could be guilty of crime but not capable of true thought or feeling, that my Mum spent most of her upbringing being told to tell people she was half indian or that even now certain rellies have told my other half that "not to worry dear, the blood wont show up in your dear little daughter!"... its not anyones fault except the perpetrators past and present and theyre dead and buried, and may they rot slowly. Just remember that theres a lot of green grassy patches in back paddocks around the country that have entire families underneath em, one day a year, or that the average lifespans of "white" and "black" australians have essentially flipped since invasion. Think "sorry" as in "ah fuck thats right, this is the day you commemorate the terrible thing that happened years ago, sorry to hear that!".

I, my family and noone else with any sense wants expects or really gives a rats about someone saying "sorry"... just to remind people that we had a really dark and bloody and exceptionally vicious genocidal process here once upon a time, and that whilst its great to move forward, sometimes its important to remember the past.

Must be remember too that not only is this family history for many people, it's also personal in the sense that if I were born say a hundred years ago, by my own "genetic definition" if you wanted to get crass and reduce to fractions rather than belonging, I would have been fair game as far as being treated like an animal goes, despite looking "white enough" by their numbers I'd have been fucked. Indiscriminately, oddly enough.

There were more white colonists killed in battles in Queensland alone than there were verified instances of Native Americans offing white colonists in the entirety of North America, or so the anthro set says... numbers on how many blackfellas copped it are of course sketchier but even assuming a fairly even rate of mutual extermination, its horrific... but very poorly documentated. A few accounts are around from say old station logs, coppers reports, courthouse references, etc, but a lot of it is personal stories that were too recent to recount clearly for a long time and now anyone that knows them just wants it out of their head in some ways... passing it onto someone elses head why you get the shivers when you walk past a certain old colonial building in a regional centre can seem like more of a burden than a gift of any kind. So the word seldom gets out. So some people renamed Australia Day to make sure that this conversation would occur.

Very good point once again Husk, and you don't sound like a racist to me. Cheers for wondering whether you should be sorry at all, though, thats a lot of the battle won in some ways.

Remember not to take the media too personally, the people it claims to be about dont because we know most of it is bullshit and the rest is made up, haha.

I want Australia to be somewhere that knows where its going, and knows where its been, thats all. I could recount not particularly nice details and tales all day, but that wouldnt help anyone... read a book about the former yugoslavia, or the holocaust, pick out the nastiest passage and then imagine it happening where your house is standing, then extrapolate.

oh btw I dunno bout convict treatment vs indig treatment, convicts had a rough time for sure but being transported to the other side of the world might be better by a tad than being shot in the guts while someone rapes your wife and beheads her to sell to a man with a friend at the museum "back home"... has to be rememberd that its one thing to have your rights pushed to their limits, or for those limits to be redefined, but to be declared non human is something that is so shameful and wrong that hundreds of years later its half the reason those aboriginal kids at the trainstation look a bit scary at first...then when you look closer they just look... past fear, past uncertainty, into the more stable realm of apathy. Kevin Rudd saying sorry about that kids wont make them feel any "better" and they really dont care if he does... they just want people to stop looking at them like theyre animals, subhuman, incapable of being anything more than they are... its a lot easier to create a national mindset then it is to be rid of one ;)

edity bit... very few australians are actually descended from "convict stock" despite what everyones nana says, likewise very few are actually related to Ned Kelly, when you look at the facts, if anything its the other way, with a decent whack of the current "white gene pool" among younger Australians coming from 20th century immigration, post war Poms etc..they say 1 in 3 australians has a parent from a different country. Anyrate, the convict thing has a LOT less to do with our current makeup than ppl like to assume (thats just brit bullshit we took on board with our national inferiority complex, i think) and OF those convicts, once again when you actually look at the books so to speak, plenty were whores, killers, rapists, fences, robbers, frauds... oddly enough everyones great great something came here with the first fleet for stealing a loaf of bread but looking at contemporary british records shows a surprising lack of articles about "mystery rash of bread stealing continues" or "ladies urged to secure lace dainties!". Im sure plenty were sent here for bugger all, and plenty were victims of social issues from when THEIR culture was someone elses "blackfellas" eg the irish, etc.. but to compare the status of the convict to that of the Aborigine is a bit strong somehow.

anyways, noone seems like a bigot around here, at least., so we can all relax.

VM

Edited January 26, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[husk]

...that my Mum spent most of her upbringing being told to tell people she was half indian or that even now certain rellies have told my other half that "not to worry dear, the blood wont show up in your dear little daughter!"... its not anyones fault except the perpetrators past and present and theyre dead and buried, and may they rot slowly.

Vert, its was hard to find somthn in particular to quote you on man, but i was almost in tears when i read about yr mum hiding who she was. thanks for responding ok, i was dreading going to bed tonight thinking that no one understood where i was coming from or that i may end up offending someone, so thanks for yr huge reply dude, i appreciate it.

*sorry. brain, thanks again for yr explaination and offering, i didn't think u were calling me a biggot.

I want it to be known that after posting here this evening i felt pretty bad when i read back what i wrote and realised how petty and selfish it sounds when put it into perspective over what the whole issue is about. every fucking day i think about all the fucked up situations that exist in this country especially those that continue to devestate aboriginal communities. i guess that being as sensetive as i am, i feel guilt so (SO) easily and i dont like being told that i'm part of this problem.

i just feel helpless when it comes to doing somthn to improve the lives of the indigenous communites that are suffering so immensely and i guess all i can do is get defensive when i read a very opinionated article insinuating that i don't know or don't care or don't do anything or worry enough about it because i may be 'white'.

i wish it was easier for all ppl in this country to disregard the mainstream perceptions and break down the financial, geographical and cultural barriers that keep us really uninformed of each other. i want those who care here to know that despite all my defeatest sounding drivvle i intend to work up towards some volunteer stints for icv or whoever and make it a mainstay of my life.

peace ppls x

p.s. i will AGAIN try to tightly control my venting .

*in regards to the convict thing, not that it really matters, but my ascendents did come from irish rebels and alike and i was just trying to show this country was started as an enslaved penal colony with the infamous British class system and the anglo descendent australians i know of don't celebrate that fact on australia day just as they don't celebrate the beginning of a very, very fucked up period for the aboriginals either. that's is what i was try to get at and i'm sure you guys know this anyway.

Edited January 26, 2008 by husk

[apothecary]

Currently at work, one of the old broadcast techs was saying "nobody ever used to say un-Australian, not till John Howard was Treasurer and Pauline Hanson"

I was poking round the internet to see if he was right, and it seems he is! McCarthy was doing the un-American thing in the 80's and we know how that went.

These two articles which I pulled right off the top of google when I overheard his comment are definitely worth a read (first ones an opinion article). Did you know that in 2004 John Howard was responsible for 28% of all mentions of the phrase un-Australian in all major newspapers?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/hugh-mackay/...9119722702.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/03/14/1110649126449.html

The whole thing (like I said) smacks of McCarthyism and feeling guilty about possibly being "un-Australian" makes you more of an Aussie than anyone who would label you otherwise!

[MORG]

Well said Vert.

On a related note, I have for some time wanted to educate myself further on the history of the indigenous extirpation.

Can anyone suggest a book or two that provide good reading and an accurate and vivid history of the conflict between aborigines and colonists during settlement?

[-YT-]

Definalty well said said Vert!

Im kinda after the same thing as Morg but from the early colonial period in the queensland area, does seem pritty hard to find good books on the subject, one book i had cant quite remember indigenous land rights i think it was called but had all the state laws from the start of the colonies up until now, wasnt bad had some interesting things in it.do you Know of any decent books Vert?

How the west was lost - Don Mcleod, Is a great read about Don Mcleod & the people of the central desert regions to gain land rights and rights as people this stuff is really fucking gold and i dont know why it isnt a school reading text eh...

Theres a few other good books like The wailing - national black oral history all storys from the old folk about hows thigns were back then, quite sad to read some of it but man the balls and spirit some of the people had to keep going trully inspiring. Charles Perkins - because a white man will never do it, also a good read more so about recent politics (last 30/40 years or so) but also a broad range of topics relating to indigenous issues.

lol i just go down to the local libaray and see whats about, but if anyone else has any good books let us know!

Edited January 27, 2008 by -YT-

[incognito]

5 lifetimes shroomy? are u assuming aborilginal lifespans only reach 40 yrs of age? alot of aboriginal genocide occured only 160-180 yrs agom mate , to me thats two lifetimes.

only 30 yrs ago aboriginals were not alowwed to sit in the main area of the Wardell hotel. they had their own little room outthe back that they were confined to.

However , all the wardell football trophies, which were won by the naturally gifted aboriginal popualtion that were on the team, was kept in the main bar area. how disgustingly offensive is that. and people wonder why the aboriginal population has a 'chip' on their shoulder.

if u swapped places, u would have an equal one im sure, if not bigger. i know i would. i spent 6 months on an all-aborigunal bush regen team, and the storys of discrimination was unbelieveably appaling. even looks u would get whilst out shopping or having lunch with these guys was enough to make me angry as hell. yet these guys copped it in their stride, sighting ignorance.

but u could tell it hurt, hurt like hell. these guys were the most decent, honest people ive ever shared time with.

yet were literally treated like shit and with suspicion everywhere we went.

out west when my exand i were shopping, security cameras where called on our aisl because she 'looked' aboriginal.

australia has a long way to go before we can claim our country is baised on freedom and equality.

racism is so fucking gross. gross and ignorant.

[XipeTotec]

5 lifetimes shroomy? are u assuming aborilginal lifespans only reach 40 yrs of age?

that is exactly what I am assuming... infact, it is fact that the average aboriginal lifespan hangs around that figure. My comment was a reference to the divide within our

own country regarding health and life expectancy.

Edited January 27, 2008 by XipeTotec

[Teljkon]

sdfsf

Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon

[Vertmorpheus]

It's not a stereotype, and for the sake of civility I won't set about deciding what is or isn't a funny thing, either. it has a bit to do with nutrition in regional and beyond regional areas... eg a bottle of fresh milk costs 6 bucks, a bottle of coke costs 3 bucks, centrelink gives you 150 a week...whatya reckon the kids end up drinking... then theres substance abuse, generalised exposure to rates of disease and infection rarely seen in even quite "bogan" white areas, respiratory problems, petrol sniffing (actually a habit learnt from Lutheran missionaries, from what anyone can work out), chronic alcoholism, suicide (the suicide rate of indig male youth is simply obscene) and a variety of other causes.

There's a few good books out there I can hunt up names of (off the top of my head they all sound the same) but generally check the index in any books of aussie history for the words Aboriginal, Protector, Half Caste, etc... note what you find and assume that for every case you hear about theres at least another you aren't hearing about, human nature being what is. I don't read much in the aboriginal studies section of the state library, being aboriginal it saves time and train fare haha... nah just jokes I'll get a good list from Mum and get back to you. If you want to get a feel for the disjointed feelings common to hybrid vigour in this country then check out the classics like My Place by Sally Morgan (another great Indian family haha), movies it took Americans to make like Rabbit Proof Fence,

Otherwise its important to remember that some terrible shit did happen, a couple hundred years back, and at intervals of half that or one quarter that, but it lives with people today... and being racially or culturally marginalised for reasons you didnt choose is such an alien thing to many mainstream white aussies (being called fat at school isnt nice, buts its a lil different to knowing why so many towns n cities in Australia have "Boundary Streets" about 10 minutes ouut of town) that its hard to imagine... as someone mentioned often its not til someone has an Aboriginal mate or partner or work colleague that people actually realise that its beyond Ice Cube lyrics and jokes about thongs, its about real people that comprise precisely fuck all of the population yet attract an absurd proportion of the wrong kind of attention...whilst often being passed over for the right kind of attention... luckily, the way the worms of genetics wriggle, I came out "whitish" and my 2nd bro looks more mediterranean (when Mum went around the world she was assumed to be a local almost wherever she went haha) but its a rare gift being able to get angry as fuck with all 8 sides of an ill informed conversation at any given pub or party or social event.... has to be remembered too that while I cant swap bodies with anyone else, and noone that isnt black will ever know how it "feels"... I can say quite plainly that theres pllenty of blackfellas that couldnt give a shit about what plants are int he backyard and theres plenty of "whitebread" doing a fanfuckingtastic job of medicinal study, preservation of natural heritage, etc... I think of my aboriginality as being a genetic responsibility more than any kind of entitlement, if that makes any sense... I should do my bit because not only do I know better, at some level I "feel" better than that. Probably sounds a bit nutso. But thats how it is. So I can on one hand know when its going to rain, and I don't get into the same tangle of guilt and second guessing over say running over a stray wallaby or pinching some timber or leaves from some scrub (provided proper time has been spent in respect and consideration) that seem to plague other people (better to see it being overthought, that overlooked, as issues ) but I do get a bit pooey when i hear about blatantly silly land rights claims and whatnot... I can accept that old John up the road that has been living on the 3rd gen family farm for 75 years...thats HIS land to him, and I'd be a complete bastard to want to take it away.

All gets a bit complicated.

Anyways, the best thing you can do is keep in mind that a white guy staggernig up a footpath has had a big night out with the boys, and a blackfella staggering up the footpath is another drunken boong ;)

VM

sorry forgot to add that the only "real" kind of history you will find about Queensland ( a place with a sick horrible legacy that you can still feel today in some parts of it, whether its dealingwith the cold blue eyed rural types or just the impression you shouldnt be in a certain river flat) will come as brief snippets in biographies of ppl like Lois O'donahue, pat o'shea, charlie perkins, neville bonner, etc) otherwise you want anything that is lousey with "newspaper snippets" etc.. those kinda history books that youd grandad usually passed onto your dad, haha. Otherwise just take a look at how the most "fertile" and diverse areas are now almost entirely whitebread colonies and the pisspoor highly urbanised or marginal country is packed with aboriginal people... all you need to know right there... that and why so many of those nice old timber places that look like something from an Opeth film clip have those depressing looking lil huts about 50m behind the main house... sick shit.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[ThunderIdeal]

i'll just add one thing to this thread.. as far as i'm aware high school textbooks don't mention any genocide of aborigines. who is responsible for this, the department of education? denying our history is flat out ludicrous. i have spoken to japanese people who didn't know the part japan played in world war two. well, maybe japan has an excuse, they were virtually taken over by the united states for some time, what's our excuse?

[husk]

i'll just add one thing to this thread.. as far as i'm aware high school textbooks don't mention any genocide of aborigines. who is responsible for this, the department of education? denying our history is flat out ludicrous.

i have to admit i remember nothing of australian history being taught in primary or high school, i don't even think we did a report or essay or anything requiring study!? i don't know, maybe our teacher didn't find it as interesting as other countries' history? all i really learnt about australia's past at school is WWI, WWII and the Vietnam/Korean wars.

you know apart from the usual burke and wills, captain cook and mathew flinders stuff that i read myself.

maybe the fact australia wasn't an 'actual nation' until 1901 has somthn to do with missing/accurate history...?

i have spoken to japanese people who didn't know the part japan played in world war two. well, maybe japan has an excuse, they were virtually taken over by the united states for some time, what's our excuse?

i remember seeing some news footage a while back from japan showing students rallying around the notion of admitting to war time atrocities, against china in particular i think, and some very demure, unsuspecting old japanese men started physically attacking the students with such pent up emotion. i think some of japan's recent war time history is not publicised there.

peace x

Edited January 27, 2008 by husk

[Micromegas]

Some really insightful comments and observations VM, thanks for sharing your perspective... the indigenous situation is indeed deplorable, more so it's hard to fix for so many reasons and on so many levels. But others will know more in this regard than me.

The Australian land, however, seems to be calling some of us of whatever colour and race, to define the new 'Australian' and what it means to live here, to connect in ways suitable to our experiences, intentions and integrity. I wish I had more first-hand contact with indigenous traditions, however, to strengthen what is already a diverse and unusual, traditionally displaced and *un-australian* way of connecting with a powerful and ancient land. A land I am proud to call home. A land I am proud to work with, because of its amazing spirit, its tenacity and its wisdom. If I can clear away any of the hurt it is carrying, I will endevour to do so.

The oppression you feel, Husk, appears to me more like global problem manifesting in many individual lives, whatever their home. That is, as eco-friendly and earth senstive hearts battle the destructive, combative capitalist mind. That's like two continental sheets locking horns, it's bound to cause mountains, micro and macroscopically.

Why aren't we celebrating an ancient heritage and consecrating what natural beauty remains in our country on Australia day, instead of drinking booze and stumbling home *after a big night out with the lads* is a question half formed on my lips... and yet there is a lot to be said for the culture of mateship, if only it weren't so exclusive.

All I can hope for, is that the sentiments expressed in this thread are expressed in the new Australia that we are in the process of creating now - one of assimilation, transferrence of knowledge and understanding that transcends all distinctions out of love and respect for the oldest continent on the globe, its spirits and caretakers!

Micro

[incognito]

PM to say sorry to Aborigines on Feb 12

Monday Jan 28 06:03 AEDT

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will reportedly make an apology to Aboriginal people when federal parliament opens next month.

On Australia Day Mr Rudd named race relations between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians as one of the nation's great challenges.

Furthermore, he told guests at the Lodge on Saturday night he wanted indigenous people to be "full participants" in society, rather than marginalised Australians, News Ltd reports.

It says while Mr Rudd has ruled out paying compensation to Aboriginal people who were removed from their families as part of the stolen generation, moves are underway for the "sorry" declaration to come on February 12 when new MPs formally take their seats in parliament.

its a step forward i believe.

i do believe leaders need to emerge from within their community to lead the way into the future,positive figures for the kids to identify with, unfortunately a lot of land councils are quite corrupt,(aboriginal people that ive worked /spent time with seem very aware of this, but nothing much gets said as western corporations get the approvals and so forth that they need from them, and not much care is given about the allocation of such funds, and the funding finds it way into the pockets of a few.

as for the whole 'child molestation ' thing up north, where the army and social welfare units where sent in, i couldnt find anything more insulting if i were an aboriginal parent. that message blatently said to me 'aboriginals molest their children'

why couldnt the govt have sent the army and welfare agents into catholic churchs?

if the government was dedicated to their premise of confronting child abuse, why not a national one?

we all know this happens across the board , in every culture, why pin-point the aboriginals?

makes me think there may be more to the argument that the govt was after land owned by indigenous people for scoping out for mining.

was quite the insult slapping that one on the aboriginal people, unfortunately they have come to expect it.

sure, random cases of child abuse exist in aboriginal coulture, but guess what, it does here in white western co

culture as well. sure it needs to be addresses , but addressed across the board.

my friend marcus told me that B4 white man, if a man was proven to have had sexuall relations with a child, a termite nest would be opened and the man inserted into it, and covered back over. and eaten slowly alive.

good way to cure that form of cowardly sick depravity, and a law id sure like to be upheld today, hell id do the digging!!

If u dont think we live in a discriminatory country, think again.

[Auntyjack]

 

 

If u dont think we live in a discriminatory country, think again.

..is there one that isn't?

[husk]

as for the whole 'child molestation ' thing up north, where the army and social welfare units where sent in, i couldnt find anything more insulting if i were an aboriginal parent. that message blatently said to me 'aboriginals molest their children'

why couldnt the govt have sent the army and welfare agents into catholic churchs?

if the government was dedicated to their premise of confronting child abuse, why not a national one?

we all know this happens across the board , in every culture, why pin-point the aboriginals?

makes me think there may be more to the argument that the govt was after land owned by indigenous people for scoping out for mining.

was quite the insult slapping that one on the aboriginal people, unfortunately they have come to expect it.

sure, random cases of child abuse exist in aboriginal coulture, but guess what, it does here in white western co

culture as well. sure it needs to be addresses , but addressed across the board.

i suppose child molestation is more transparent in those communities because of the social welfare that's already out there, plus the smaller number of ppl living there as opposed to the cities.

in the cities no one has any idea what goes on behind closed doors cos there aren't really any communities (in the literal sense), ppl in our urban societies keep to themselves, for the most part.

makes me think there may be more to the argument that the govt was after land owned by indigenous people for scoping out for mining.

was quite the insult slapping that one on the aboriginal people, unfortunately they have come to expect it.

there was a 'difference of opinion' programme on last year addressing the intervention and if i remember correctly a aboriginal female judge from nt was against the intervention saying it has not worked where as a woman in the audience and from one of the communities in question was stating that the crimes need to be stopped at any cost before real change can be made. so there isn't just one aboringinal situation or view point in this country, there are many like in any other group of ppl in the world, so a generalised approach won't work in any case.

my friend marcus told me that B4 white man, if a man was proven to have had sexuall relations with a child, a termite nest would be opened and the man inserted into it, and covered back over. and eaten slowly alive.

good way to cure that form of cowardly sick depravity, and a law id sure like to be upheld today, hell id do the digging!!

this is the most difficult thing. changin the law. this is part of my reasoning for a bigger change for all ppl in this country to occur before any real reconciling can be done. there should not be 1 law for all ppl.

traditional aboriginal laws may have been fine for some but if i had been dealt a similar punishment as the one yr friend told you of i wouldn't accept it as justice i be up in arms at the 'system' just as i am for the notion of 25 years for drug possesion.

no two ppl are the same so for 1 law to be applied to each of them really makes no sense, especially when those laws are decided by someone else. but you see this is never going to happen.

ppl can really only help themselves... and each other to an extent. so that means that a government can't actually make changes that in reality are practiced.

and to make it worse the media has become so much more powerful and so much more persuasive that no one can access any reliable, credible information to figure out what is really going on and how they could be helping.

the whaling catastrophe is a good example. govt. can pass the laws but they can't seem to enforce them, where as a few hardcore dudes on a boat who give a fuck can acheive far more! then all it takes is one bias news company to distort their actions and sway a whole bunch of ppl into not supporting them.

it's so complex. each person has their own different set of problems. when it comes down to it only they can solve them.

right?

Edited January 28, 2008 by husk

[chilli]

as for the whole 'child molestation ' thing up north, where the army and social welfare units where sent in, i couldnt find anything more insulting if i were an aboriginal parent. that message blatently said to me 'aboriginals molest their children'

Um... they do. Should white parents be insulted when they hear about cases of child abuse in other white families?

why couldnt the govt have sent the army and welfare agents into catholic churchs?

Haha, good idea... I can just see the TRG rappelling in through stained glass windows, shouting "everybody get on fucking ground!!" and hurling tear gas in the middle of mass.

if the government was dedicated to their premise of confronting child abuse, why not a national one?

we all know this happens across the board , in every culture, why pin-point the aboriginals?

Because of base political opportunism combined with the fact that child abuse, like every other social ill, is hugely over-represented amongst aboriginal people... much more than could account for white people being somehow more discreet when they abuse their kids.

[-YT-]

Yeah VM i kinda thought that would be the case with Queensland my familys heritage is from that way and i can understand why my old men left there when he was a young fulla especially like you say out in the rural pastoral areas lol

Hopefully one day soon someone will write up some real history of qld back then no doubt from all accounts from Don Mcleods book it wouldnt have been too far off how WA was like back then.