MAOI diet.......PLEASE HELP ME!!!

[WarpedAstro]

Hello....please forgive me and excuse me if I sound really dumb, but I am just so confused about MAOI foods....I have searched a lot of information websites, it's too scientific and over-informative for me, I just want a quick summary....If I plan to consume Peyotes or Ayahuasca or any entheogen plants, I should avoid MAOI foods for couple of days or weeks before the "trip" or while I'm on "trip" or after the "trip" or all of above three??

What happens if I eat heaps of MAOI foods before, during and after while on taking Entheogen plants??

Is avoiding MAOI foods is designed to increase or decrease entheogen plants's effects??

Or am I thinking and asking the questions in wrong way??

Any information or reply will be greatly thankful and useful.

Cheers again....

[Auxin]

"What happens if I eat heaps of MAOI foods before, during and after while on taking Entheogen plants??"- Warped Astro

You only need to do the MAOI diet if syrian rue or B. cappi are involved (they contain the MAOIs in question.) No special diet for just peyote, mushrooms, etc.

If you do take syrian rue while ignoring the diet there is allot of stuff that can go wrong including hypertensive crisis (way high blood pressure), dizziness, vomiting, and death in the most extreme cases.

"Is avoiding MAOI foods is designed to increase or decrease entheogen plants's effects??"

The diet just keeps you out of the hospital, ingesting syrian rue does increase and alter the experience. Traditionally it is mainly only done with DMT containing plants. Other combos have been experimented with but some of them are questionable or dangerous and some are just plain funny (syrian rue does not boost compounds lacking amines, so combining it with salvia or cannabis is a waste.)

Take my advice: before taking syrian rue or B. cappi with anything (or by themselves) do lots of research and read all the info out there, it really is important.

[WarpedAstro]

Thanks Auxin, it's starting to get clear...thanks again mate....WA

[Guest Mesqualero]

If u can't be bothered learning about the effects of these plants... and really paying attention to what you read and the absolute MASS of information available why should anyone be bothered to spoon feed you??

You should probably avoid Taking MAO Inhibiting substances until you know WHAT they do and WHY they are taken...

Sorry If I sound like a Bastard...

[This message has been edited by Mesqualero (edited 25 June 2002).]

[WarpedAstro]

no problem Mesqualero, you are welcome to be a bastard, it's a free country, I only asked for a summary to check everything what I read and learnt and understood was correct didn't want to get confused, just because you have been a member for this site for a long time it doesnt mean you are a FXXK'in GOD......gee what a prick you are...You expect everyone to be university professor?? sorry I'm not prefect.....can I ask you whats it like to be prefect?? you sound like that you think you are prefect..what a wanker you are.....

[Guest si]

guys, let's TRY not to stray to far from the topic.

WarpedAstro, there's HEAPS of info regarding MAOi's at www.erowid.com .

Avoiding specific foods can actually increase the intensity of the experience while cleansing your body at the same time ( get ready for la purga if you experiment with ayahuasca). Many Shaman abstain from not only specific foods but also sexual activity MONTHS before indulging in a 'sacrament' .

Although Mesqualero might have offended you, i'm sure his/her intention was to make you aware that these plants are VERY powerful and dangerous (i'm sure you already know that).

By all means do as much research as you possibly can but if you do need clarification don't hesitate to ask questions, regardless of some people's response.

Goodluck

PSYTAO

[Guest Mesqualero]

My amount of posts has nothing to do with it...

I'm giving up the smoking it's been six days now leave me alone... good luck with your research

[MrBumpy]

mesq : maybe you should try this site product http://www.iamlost.com/features/nicolaxx/

-bumpy

[Guest Mesqualero]

You are a goddamned smart ass

[Darklight]

Mesq its not like you to be grumpy

The amount of stuff I've seen around which is contradictory or overated would confuse anyone, well, me at least. As long as someone has at least bothered to do some basic groundwork, what's the harm in asking extra questions?

If the search engine were working I'd suggest a search here if you haven't done one already... if it still isn't up yet try narrowing your search to specific archives and forums, rather than trying to search them all at once. It takes longer, but the links work. There's been some good posts here on MAO and their inhibition

[Torsten]

Warped, please keep in mind that most of the lit you read about MAOI diet etc is copied from medical lit in reference to the long acting MAO-B inhibitors. Caapi and Rue are short acting MAO-A inhibitors.

I've posted heaps of this sort of stuff both here and on other forums as I went through a phase of trying it all a few years ago.

I gutsed out on bananas, icecream, yogurt, cheese, etc etc and just about all the 'prohibited' foods without even the tiniest effect. I have also consumed various other drugs with MAOI, however I won't elaborate too much about these as I woudl need to go into A LOT of detail and I don't have the time right now. Some are dangerous others are simply not. But in general the whole MAOI business is full of theoretical bullshit that simply doesn't apply and seems to be proliferated mostly to give people an excuse for when their trip doesn't go well. "I freaked out after too much icecream". yeah right.

No need to push your luck in any of this, so I would stay off the foods in question while on the MAOI and for a couple of hours before it. Other than that don't pollute your mind with the evergrowing MAOI scare tactics. The most damage most of these foods will do is if you start getting worried about them.

Of all the things I have taken with Syrian Rue, only one gave me a real fright even at tiny dose, and that is yohimbe extract. Much more dangerous than even MDMA (which is quite dangerous).

if you still want to watch your diet carefully, then check for foods that contain or produce tyramine (most of the things on the lists), as this is the substance that gets you into trouble. Your body can't get rid of it and it may build up to a stage where your bloodpressure is affected. Don't freak out, just go to hospital if you get too worried.

[WarpedAstro]

Many thanks for more information, of course I'm inexperienced in this area, thats why I am asking questions and excuse me Mesqualero, I wish to apologise for my remarks towards you, I haven't smoked ciggies for 6 weeks nows and it gets easier the longer to stay away from these poison sticks, maybe you should try these nicotine patches, they are really helpful and Goodluck and hopefully you will get thru quiting ciggies....Cheers WA

[Guest Mesqualero]

Thanks I'm sorry too.. and I wish you well on your entheoquest

[woof woof woof]

Ey Torsten,

You should write a book about your experiences! And especially one about saftey procedures ...for example, if something goes wrong ...what should the people in the hospital do (administer)... , cause they can make matters worse if they give you something that interacts with MAOI's.

If you have one in the planning, I would love to get a (signed)copy!

You mention some very intresting stuff.... that MAO-A (short acting) and MAO-B(long acting) inhobitors.... i didnt know.... althought I did some reasearch about MAOI's longago...when I first heard of Ayahuasca.

Heh, Mesq.... have to agree about the spoon feeding part...

But Warped, consider yourself welcome.....and never be afraid to ask..... especially if you plan to experiment with "certain" substances, (where legal of course) Cause life is valueble my friend!

be well.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by brian:

You should write a book about your experiences!

eeek, no time

And especially one about saftey procedures ...for example, if something goes wrong ...what should the people in the hospital do (administer)... , cause they can make matters worse if they give you something that interacts with MAOI's.

that's a dicey subject and I am not qualified for it. However with MAOI you are in luck, as most docs will know what to do. In most ayahuasca cases it is unimportant that dmt is involved, as this has little detrimental effect. It is usually only the tyramine that is the problem and this is the same regardless of why the person ingested MAOI. I was living with an emergency ward nurse while doing most of my dangerous experimenting.... and I was only a couple of minutes from the hospital.

[t st tantra]

i think its important to help new members,and am glad this is sorted amiably as usual.

torsen,thanks for the yohimbine warning,may have saved me some anguish.

auxin,i thought s rue and cannabis was a classic combo,suggested by r a wilson as being the sacrement of hassan i sabbah?

t s t .

[Auxin]

"auxin,i thought s rue and cannabis was a classic combo"- tst

Sure you can combine them and it would alter the effect, but this would be due to the independant effects of the two. Syrian rue only POTENTIATES amines (of course it is possible that cannabis contains an amine normally inactive, but made active by beta carbolines. If so this would be an interesting research project where legal.)

[Torsten]

Auxin, I think you will find that MAOI's increase the effects of a hell of a lot of things you would not consider simply because they are not monoamines. The reason being that many such drugs (eg THC) cause the release of biogenic amines, which are unde normal circumstances then eliminated by MAO. Syrian Rue will hawever limit this destruction, thus keeping the levels higher. While this is not a direct synergy in pharmacologicla terms, it is nonetheless a synergy in effects and thus in my mind just as valid.

I have long thought that the narrow definition of synergy applied in science is inadequate as it doesn't reflect what is really going on. For example, the combined effect of THC and Rue is definitely greater than the sum of its independent effects. This in itself should define them as synergistic. Salvia is another one, and here things get even muddier cos we think that salvia doesn't act on any of the common monoamine systems.

Obviously these synergies are nowhere near as obvious as MAOI and DMT, but nevertheless they should not be disregarded.

[Auxin]

Interesting theory Torsten, that could very well be the case if there is infact potentiation. But heres another possibility for ya: Maby the cannabis is potentiating the beta carbolines. It has happened with certain strains of cannabis + LSD, sometimes its a VERY strong effect I'm told. Lacking high dollar scientific research the difference between rue boostin' THC and vice versa could be qualitatively estimated by a well experienced tripper. Another test would be to use a totally non-entheogenic MAO-A inhibitor with cannabis and look for potentiation. I'd do the experiments myself if it werent illegal over here, is there a experienced Hollander in the house?

[Torsten]

good point indeed. It may well be the case. I prefer the term synergy as this way you don't have to worry about which way the potentiation goes

[Auxin]

Torsten, How strong is the synergy effect with syrian rue + S. divinorum or S. splendens? Usually I am told that the effect is either a placebo or a internet hoax.

[This message has been edited by Auxin (edited 30 June 2002).]

[Torsten]

I don't like salvia enough to go through all the combinations

I know this stuff has been on the net for a while, but I also have it from reliable sources who have tried it themselves.

I think if this was to be taken any futher it should be done with oral salvia (rather than smoked). I can imagine that this is much more constructive. There are a couple of people on this forum who have access to tincture (and enjoy it) - maybe we can ask them to do an experiment.