tripp'n Posted May 21, 2002 Hi all, Now that its getting nice and cold with not many sunlight hours left, I was wandering if i could bring my garden indoors under standard household flouro's?, If so, How close should i have them from the lights?. Here is some of the things i want to bring indoors, Cacti(seedlings & cuttings),Khat seedlings, Withania Somnifera seedlings,Calea cuttings,Brugs cuttings and seedlings,HBWR,Coleus seedlings,Brahmi,Phalaris seedlings,Leonurus Sibiricus. Any help much appreciated, Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted May 22, 2002 wow thats a pretty impresive list. as far as the fluros go you could put them directly on the plants and it would not hurt them. to do any damage with fluros would require a hell of a lot of them. by the same token it requires quite a few to provide enough lumens to encourage vegitive growth. you will also need to be carefull as to how many hours per cycle(24hour) of light they are going to get. to match outside conditions 10 light and 14 dark would do it. gee i could babble on for hours and get no where on this. to sum up just make sure there getting enough light because you can never have to much artificial light memo to self: keep tripping gnomes away from the computer [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 21 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted May 22, 2002 just be careful when u return the plants to normal sunlight as there is a massive difference in strength and severe burns may result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted May 22, 2002 Originally posted by tripp'n:Hi all, Cacti(seedlings & cuttings),Khat seedlings, Withania Somnifera seedlings,Calea cuttings,Brugs cuttings and seedlings,HBWR,Coleus seedlings,Brahmi,Phalaris seedlings,Leonurus Sibiricus. Thanks. Cacti do well In my experience. Most things do OK but hardly grow I dont know how cold it gets there but cooler weather shouldnt bother phalaris or leonurus sibiricus - frost is not something im experienced with though. have you considered a greenhouse? A frame with one or two sheets of clear plastic on a north facing wall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted May 23, 2002 dam gnome get out of it. ok now i have a clear head you might also look at the humidity factors inside ie:if your running electric fan heaters or such the inside air will be dry and the plants will need misting. also wash down the the leaves once every couple of weeks to stop the stomantas from blocking up with dust.i just know theres somthing wrong with that last statment cant for the life think what it is though. [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 22 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adrian Posted May 23, 2002 Can i grow under flouro's?. Yes, however you will require a minimum of 8 Weetbix a day (will reply sensibly tomorrow) good night all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Astronomy Domine Posted May 23, 2002 This is probably common knowledge to most reading this forum but for the benefit of those that don’t know or are new to this. I thought that it may be worth noting here that standard Fluorescent tubes emit most of there light in the Blue, indigo and violet end of the spectrum and very little in the red end the spectrum. What does this mean?? Sunlight is much more evenly balanced than artificial light. Pure white light is not one single colour, it is in fact a combination of many colours, but usually termed as consisting as seven colours in this order. Red, orange, yellow, Green, Blue, indigo and violet. Sunlight is ideally what is to be targeted for artificial lighting. A mixture of standard Fluorescent and incandescent (normal bulbs) is a better mixture as the incandescent bulbs will supply the Red, Orange and Yellow end of the spectrum while the fluorescent will supply the blue, indigo and violet. Other methods of artificial lighting can be achieved with metal halide lighting, As used by sports centres and Drug Producer’s. These are fantastic for artificial lighting as the light that they emit is closest to that of natural sunlight, out of all the lighting types described here. There are a few large downsides to metal lights. Safety, I would never recommend installing these Metal lights unless you happen to be an experienced qualified electrician. Electrical wiring of these lights can be tricky when they are to be switched automatically, due to the large amounts of power that they consume. Also they generate a hell of a lot of heat, which must be regulated for good plant growth. They do tend to consume sewage tankers of power, so unless your surname is Packer or Murdoch I wouldn’t consider these a practical option for the home ethno gardener. A compromise comes in the form of a fluorescent tube that cost a little more than your standard tube but has better light emission characteristics. It is called a Gro-lux tube. It running costs are the same as a normal tube but it is far better for plant growth. These tubes are also used for fish aquariums. I have had many good experiences by using these tubes . These tubes can be obtained from most wholesale electrical distributors, Aquarium or Hydro shops. My 2c AD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 23, 2002 Originally posted by Astronomy Domine:standard Fluorescent tubes emit most of there light in the Blue, indigo and violet end of the spectrum and very little in the red end the spectrum. What does this mean?? Not always true, but yes with cool whites very true, generally blue spectrum is for growth, red is for flowering/budding... Most of my experience with lights was with pot plants so this is going on previous experiments with them.... Ive grown under 4x 40W cool whites before... 6 plants grew *VERY* slow but tight n thick... lights were kept 2 INCHES from the top of the plants, very little burning. I've also grown under a 400W HP sodium and a 1000W metal halide b4 with fairly poor results.... the light was probably 2-3 foot max from the top of the plants... the bottom of the reflective shield was mere inches away however - plants grew horrendously, could never get a good amount of heat with the light so far away from the plants and just generally was a pain in the ass, very costly too also metal halides are better than HP sodium no doubt, a mate has grown with a 600W of each and you can see the proof for yourself if you do the same... I highly recommend anyone sticking to using that natural ball of energy in the sky, y'know the Sun? that thing NO man-made light will ever compare to, even in winter time the sun does a better job basking your plants in *good* light n energy than any light - and all for FREE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 23, 2002 another idea Ive seen put into use with lights are those little fluro-bulbs if anyone has seen them? not sure on the proper name but they are small 15W-25W I think, so not much power but if you got 6 or so and put them into the top of a cupboard it should do the trick.... also I have seen blue and red spectrum bulbs you can buy, from memory around $25 a bulb good cheap alternative to the sun still not the same though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squiresk Posted May 24, 2002 stoma (singular) stomata (plural) I think, someone could check. "stomantas" sounds good enough though. kai,. One more thing someone could explain for me. Whats the point of broad spectra when the Chlorophylls only absorb, to a large degree, narrow bands of colour. Prolly has been explained to me, but forgotten and would like to know again. Kai, If no-one can explain, I'll find out and post here myself later. [This message has been edited by squiresk (edited 23 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted May 25, 2002 [QOUTE]I've also grown under a 400W HP sodium and a 1000W metal halide b4 with fairly poor results.... the light was probably 2-3 foot max from the top of the plants... the bottom of the reflective shield was mere inches away however - plants grew horrendously, could never get a good amount of heat with the light so far away from the plants and just generally was a pain in the ass, very costly too.[/QOUTE] a common mistake people make when growing under lights is to presume that to get good results you must grow the plants as big as you would outdoors. in my experiance its much better to grow more but keep them small. the benifits of this are you have more room to work with and the plants get more light. if you grow large plants the light is only reaching the top third of your plants anyway so your wasting time getting them to that hieght. [QOUTE]also metal halides are better than HP sodium no doubt, a mate has grown with a 600W of each and you can see the proof for yourself if you do the same... chalk and cheese realy. metal halides like floros emit more blue spectrum light and are just great for vegitive growth and hps emit more red spectrum light great for flowering. SONTI AGRO lamps emit a great mix of both and are a great happy medium. [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 25 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 25, 2002 a common mistake people make when growing under lights is to presume that to get good results you must grow the plants as big as you would outdoors. in my experiance its much better to grow more but keep them small. the benifits of this are you have more room to work with and the plants get more light. if you grow large plants the light is only reaching the top third of your plants anyway so your wasting time getting them to that hieght. yes this is true, the plants do grow about 1/3 the size under light but they definately do NOT get more light; besides if you have grown under light you'd know how tight the buds grow and block off the light to the rest of the plant - funny that huh. And as far as bud goes, would you prefer actual green or hairs? cuz honestly now you'll get more hairs growing under the sun than with lights, if you can grow properly in the first place that is... also as I mentioned it wasnt so much the light issue it was a heat one and seeing as how the room they were in was maybe max of 8'x8' and insulated and in QLD and there still wasnt enough heat I think THAT says something metal halides like floros emit more blue spectrum light and are just great for vegitive growth and hps emit more red spectrum light great for flowering. SONTI AGRO lamps emit a great mix of both and are a great happy medium. years upon years ago, yes... now WRONG, cuz if your still right, then why did I have both a vegative and a flowering bulb for my metal halide light huh? and I also know for a fact (as I've owned one of these b4 too) you can get another bulb for MH lights that is a balanced spectrum bulb same goes with HPS lights Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted May 27, 2002 sorry was i being rude in that last reply?. if I was, sorry I wasnt meaning to. YOU obviously know more about the subject than anyone on this site dragonfyre so far be it for me to offer advice. looking forward to more of your wisdom and future threads thanks for the lesson shroomy. [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 26 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 27, 2002 obviously alot more than you Shroomy and no I didnt think you were being rude, why did you think I was?! I was merely just correcting an inncorrect statement made by you, I wasnt at all trying to be rude and condescending... [This message has been edited by DragonFyre (edited 27 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted May 27, 2002 OK ill bite could never get a good amount of heat with the light so far away from the plants and just generally was a pain in the ass, very costly too. I dont understand what you mean about needing enough heat? i have personally grown under 2x400w hps lamps in the winter and summer time central nsw coast and the bigest problem i encountered was overheating. the only way i could keep my grow room at 33c and below was to place a small exhaust fan at the bootom of the door to bring in cool air from outside and than run that through flexible tubing so as the cool air was blowing directly over the plants. than i had to install a exhaust fan in the roof to get rid of hot air build up. as you would well know plants require a tempreture range between 18c and 36c anything above or below this range will drastically effect growth, however higher temps are possible if your using CO2 enrichment. I would have thought in queensland tempretures below 18c would be rare. i found when the outside tempreture was about 14c to 18c outside the room was a beutiful 30c with lights approximatly two foot above plants and no heat shield. maybe the problem was not infact heat but humidity?. , even in winter time the sun does a better job basking your plants in *good* light n energy than any light - and all for FREE yes but the photo period is all wrong, down south the average day is about 10 hours day to 14 hours night. that sort of tells most plants its flower time. and some of us have frosts to deal with. not all of the light from the sun is used by the plants iether;the most important colors in the spectrum for maximum chlorophyll production and photosynthetic response are in the blue (445nm) and red (650nm)range. so yeah the suns just great in summer but in winter lights will outgrow anything outdoors.[*}yes this is true, the plants do grow about 1/3 the size under light but they definately do NOT get more light; what do you mean by this? that plants only grow 1/3 as big or 1/3 as quick. both of these statements would be incorect. plants will grow much faster under strong artificial light and will also grow just as big as they would outdoors. the point i was trying to make about keeping them small has more to do with the dutch method than any differances between sun and artificial light. yeah your right they dont get more light but they do get more than they need and for much longer periods. ok well for the sake of this disscusion we will presume when you say bud your talking about your best buddy mate ,. besides if you have grown under light you'd know how tight the buds grow and block off the light to the rest of the plant - funny that huh. whats so funny about that?? the flowers dont block off light the leaves do and i would much rather have good amount of calyx wich is what flowers are made up of and are what produce the goodies. And as far as bud goes, would you prefer actual green or hairs? cuz honestly now you'll get more hairs growing under the sun than with lights, if you can grow properly in the first place that is.. mmmm by hairs you mean the pistils wich grow out of the calyx wich produce the resinwich sticks to the pistols and is ment to catch pollen. interesting theory the more hairs means better product, pity its horse shit. you see selecting the right breed or indeed producing your own will determine how your product comes up. just because you have heaps of hairs and it stands to reason more calyx doesnt mean you have a winner you also need those calx to be good producers of resin and that resin in turn needs to have the goodies as well. and as far as growing properly well just maybe thats why things didnt work out to well indoors for you. [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 27 May 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Posted May 28, 2002 Got to agree with shroomy on the red hairs info.No goodies on red hairs.Most of the W.W. family has the finest red hairs I,ve ever seen,almost invisible in some versions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 29, 2002 Damn Shroomy I just spent like half an hour typing a damn response only to have 'we could not post this message at this time' grrrrrr..... well I cant be bothered doing it again, maybe one day. so all I really gotta say is its all good dont have an annorism or anything now... and it sounded more like barking then biting... also it seems half the things you said were exactly what I said/meant, naturally with my own experience of it lol nevermind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted May 29, 2002 damn see it posted these ones... Grrrrr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted May 29, 2002 Originally posted by DragonFyre:and it sounded more like barking then biting... /B] I'd be careful about calling me old mate shroomy a dog there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites