A sad site (image heavy)

[ballzac]

[reshroomED]

... I fish, occasionally. As fate has it i'm going fishing tomorrow. I kill fish. I justify it by only killing the fish that i intend to eat. I don't believe in God or Gaia or the natural right of one thing over the other, i just do this because i feel that killing to make use is justified where killing for sport isn't. There is also a bag limit and a size limit and a blanket ban on some fish and hell even some sizes of female fish are illegal to catch. I adhere to all those rules.

So if you caught a large fish it would be cool to cut 1kg off and let it go to die a slow death?

Or take your legal bag of yellowbelly (5) but only eating one and leaving the rest to rot would be acceptable?

I doubt either of these would go down well on any fishing forum.

And that's what people are talking of here.

Bark-strip the lower plant and let die.

Killing a tree to use only a small part.

The main argument seems to be that taking a few trees will hurt no-one. Just like killing a few fish won't.

Doesn't make it right.

As far as influencing anyone's actions, you're making quite an assumption.

People all get to make their own choices of what they do.

And their actions will be judged by their community.

Just as is happening here.

Personally, I was just expressing my anger at needless death being advocated. Just as if I saw someone in the bush ring-barking a tree I'd stop them (or at least do my best to).

Of course it would be nice to have people read this thread and think "shit, I'll be nice to plants from now on".

The real fact is that there are a shit-load more people interested in "getting off" than give a fuck about plants. And advocating such on the www (especially with added extraction teks to attract the teenyboppers) is not going to do anyone any good bar that same shit-load.

The bottom line is that the plant in question can be harvested ethically from the wild, but people are TOO FUCKING LAZY.

ed

[MORG]

We have fruit trees because animals need to eat to live. Obviously nature has some intention in giving us psychedelic shrooms and cacti and others. All of this is nature's equilbrium mechanisms at work.

All i'm saying that these things WANT to be taken, need to be taken, and need to be recognised. Going to a bush with good will and honest intent is OK (in MY HONEST OPINION).

And it's my honest opinion that the attitude that the Earth has been granted to us for our consumption is largely to blame for "who-gives-a-fuck" attitudes towards sustainability and the over-exploitation typified by stories like Easter Island.

Now, I'm not saying you don't give a fuck Coschi, you just give a different fuck, but there are some (many) who don't give a fuck at all and they might be reading this.

Undergrounder was correct with his observation of the different world views and this is why this will not be resolved. However it's still a discussion worth having and I'm enjoying it.

We have fruit trees not because animals like us need to live, but because trees found a neat way to propagate their seeds in nutritious packets of fertiliser far from the mother plant.

reshroomEd: The bottom line is that the plant in question can be harvested ethically from the wild, but people are TOO FUCKING LAZY.

I'll cheers to that in a wholehearted fashion!

Edited January 24, 2008 by MORG

[apothecary]

All i'm saying that these things WANT to be taken, need to be taken, and need to be recognised. Going to a bush with good will and honest intent is OK (in MY HONEST OPINION).

Wow. All you're saying

Is that genetic individuals who's sole purpose is the propagation of further genetics WANT to be removed from their gene pool

That what amounts to a pretty disgusting death for eleven trees without ANY genetic recontribution is good will towards them

That showing photos of people stripping Acacia bark (ripping into them for it) on one forum and showing photos of literally molested trees alongside extraction technique for them on another is honest intent

and all of that makes it ok. (If it looks like self justification, smells like self justification and acts like self justification, then it's probably Coschi)

Edited January 24, 2008 by Sina

[Coschi]

[rexstrong]

The bottom line is that the plant in question can be harvested ethically from the wild, but people are TOO FUCKING LAZY.

ed

amen to that ed. a human trait. unfortunately.

[PD.]

this is the funniest fuckin thread i have ever read.

Wow. All you're saying

Is that genetic individuals who's sole purpose is the propagation of further genetics WANT to be removed from their gene pool

That what amounts to a pretty disgusting death for eleven trees without ANY genetic recontribution is good will towards them

That showing photos of people stripping Acacia bark (ripping into them for it) on one forum and showing photos of literally molested trees alongside extraction technique for them on another is honest intent

and all of that makes it ok. (If it looks like self justification, smells like self justification and acts like self justification, then it's probably Coschi)

touche

[_e_]

ive found individuals whose lifespan has come to a close, and who have finished their reproductive cycle, are actually very thankfull and giving of themselves.

making essences, collecting seed, and sacramet/brew from the one big old tree, who has fallen or is about to, is like working with a pharoah or priest, and guiding them through the aethereal bardot realms (death) into their next incarnation. (the state of pure being beyond death.. or within it dependig o n your particular bent)

the fact that we get so heated about these issues shows we are gearing towards a more coscious approach to interacting and relating to nature in all her wonderfull manifestations.

we are all jus acting as circuit-tree within the gaian/human mainframe... each one of us a vessell for particular messages, and our role is found in taking that message to its relevet place, like neurotrasmitters and receptor sites....

some of us are engaged in the activation of the gaian pineal, and more then anything we take this particular neurotransmitter (as a message from the tree/earth/land) out into the wider cosciousness as plant messengers, carrying very importat messages/lessos for huma consciousness...

Its important at times to remember we are not the source of the message, and that the message at times is stroger and more important then our own will or wish or desire...

its also important to ackowledge this is highly sacred work, and as such it is very demading, and often we find ourselves struggling uder the weight of it all... but at the ed of the day, the work wont be finished until there is no need for the message, and the circuitry will be complete.

(pls xcuse the typos, the n key is stuck and its quite hard to re-edit so may times ad still catch all those missing letters)

(p.s- passive, laughter has bee said to be the best medicie of them all.... if ur laughig at this the probably on the right track ;) )

Edited January 26, 2008 by ({E})

[Coschi]

meh i just don't like FUCKHEADS

don't worry fellas there's only one person here I really put into that category..

at least everyone else is actually having a discussion here

[ballzac]

I feel the need to point out that, of those who have posted in this thread who I have actually met in person, the ones who I KNOW care the most about plants and the environment, have been the LEAST judgmental and 'black and white' about the issue.

[apothecary]

Awww don't make me sit in the 'Coschi thinks I'm a fuckhead' group all by myself! What happened to all the other people you decided were fuckheads because they disagreed with your statements?

ballzac, the issue of obtusifolia harvesting has been covered so many times before (I can rehash for you if you like: if you don't have the time to work with fallen/sustainable material then you don't have the time for this substance), if you are only taking into account this thread then your judgment about the judgemental is so out of context as to be rediculous. Uh oh the pots calling the kettle black and white.

Make no mistake, my anger is focused around the fact that unless someone had found him out, Coschi would've kept up his facade for as long as he could. On this forum he is admonishing people for stripping the bark from old trees (I mean, there's 20 trees in the first post but as long as everyone strips just ONE tree each it's fine right?) and on the other happily receiving kudos from Noman and other similar crew (who have NO experience in bark except for ordering it from the net) for posting photos of splayed trees and extraction techniques for bulk amounts!

I promise you for every unverified person you "reckon" disagrees with "my" view (which is: don't go out and chop down trees just for some DMT), I have a real conversation with someone deploring these actions. They are simply too disgusted to say anything about it AGAIN, so the consensus is probably less skewed than you think.

I'm sick of this thread so I'm just gonna leave it with an expansion of a question I already asked:

Coschi, in your first post you rip on "the fool" who scraped "every single tree (except the bubs)". Did it ever occur to you that there were probably many many visitors to the site before you, each one only hitting a single tree?

By your own argument, this sort of action would be fine, doubly so if each visitor had picked the oldest tree to take from.

You obviously were unhappy about the situation at that particular patch, but the message I'm getting from you (other than you think I'm a fuckhead) is that the situation would be fine as long as it wasn't just one person who did all the scraping.

Do you see the problem with this logic yet? If not, scrape away, I tried.

[ballzac]

No I am not going solely by this thread. I have been well aware of the community's attitude towards this sort of thing. If you think I'm being black and white about it too, that's fair enough (I'm not sure if that's what you meant by saying the pot's calling the kettle black and white). I don't think I am, but that's not for me to judge. BTW, I wasn't talking about you, Sina, at all in my last post, as I have never met you in person.

[reshroomED]

Awww don't make me sit in the 'Coschi thinks I'm a fuckhead' group all by myself!

I'll sit with you Sina.

Make no mistake, my anger is focused around the fact that unless someone had found him out, Coschi would've kept up his facade for as long as he could. On this forum he is admonishing people for stripping the bark from old trees (I mean, there's 20 trees in the first post but as long as everyone strips just ONE tree each it's fine right?) and on the other happily receiving kudos from Noman and other similar crew (who have NO experience in bark except for ordering it from the net) for posting photos of splayed trees and extraction techniques for bulk amounts!

And this is what got on my goat as well.

Not only the thread at dmt-nexus but also prior posts here

Would it be illegal to send acacia obtusifolia bark to north america?

Still no mention of maidenii..

I heard swim went for a trip recently and came back with approx 20 kilos of mature (~20 year old) maidenii bark.. swim's waiting for a dream to come to him where he will finally know whether maidenii is a viable source of alkaloids or not, we'll just have to wait and see i guess...

FYI maidenii has 0.24% NMT and 0.36% DMT in the trunk bark

etc

I generally do my best to be polite and inoffensive when posting here, but this is just bullshit.

Again, TOO FUCKING LAZY.

And zac,

 

I feel the need to point out that, of those who have posted in this thread who I have actually met in person, the ones who I KNOW care the most about plants and the environment, have been the LEAST judgmental and 'black and white' about the issue.

Out of curiosity, how do I enterpret that?

ed

[ballzac]

Out of curiosity, how do I enterpret that?

ed

Just making a personal observation. You can interpret that however you think fairest. I am generally of the opinion that things that happen or are said off the forum should stay off the forum so I will not go into specifics about who I was refering to or what those people have said, either good or bad. I would like to say that there are some people for whom I have a great deal of respect because of their ethical attitude towards plants and the environment, and they have been the ones who have been the least judgemental on the issue...while still managing, in some cases, to put forth a similar view to yours and Sina's (minus the anger). That's really what I was trying to get at, but if you feel that there is any reason I should have meant something else , feel free to interpret it that way.

[apothecary]

No I am not going solely by this thread. I have been well aware of the community's attitude towards this sort of thing. If you think I'm being black and white about it too, that's fair enough (I'm not sure if that's what you meant by saying the pot's calling the kettle black and white). I don't think I am, but that's not for me to judge. BTW, I wasn't talking about you, Sina, at all in my last post, as I have never met you in person.

Maybe a poorly worded misunderstanding, I think what Ed means is when you say the people who you have met are the least judgemental there is an implication that we (the ones you havent) are the most judgemental. The point I was trying to get across was it's awful black and white of you to imply our black and whiteness when this thread is just a continuation of an oooonnnnngoing debate (with a twist) wherein the gray stuff becomes apparent.

[ballzac]

Maybe a poorly worded misunderstanding, I think what Ed means is when you say the people who you have met are the least judgemental there is an implication that we (the ones you havent) are the most judgemental. The point I was trying to get across was it's awful black and white of you to imply our black and whiteness when this thread is just a continuation of an oooonnnnngoing debate (with a twist) wherein the gray stuff becomes apparent.

Actually, I have met Ed. I think that's what he was getting at.

Sorry, I am aware of prior history with this debate but may have missed something.

[XipeTotec]

the gray stuff

u must have the american spell checker on... ofcourse, it has nothing to do with the conversation....

Edited January 27, 2008 by XipeTotec

[reshroomED]

u must have the american spell checker on... ofcourse, it has nothing to do with the conversation....

CS made a big blue there.

Your three-letter posts were much more amusing.

 

Actually, I have met Ed. I think that's what he was getting at.

Yeah, I was just curious as to what camp you were putting me in.

Definitely no offense meant, and apologies if any was taken.

Zac, if you're not advocating killing trees for a bit of dimitri, I really have no problem with you.

If you are, and you keep it to yourself, I'll say sweet FA about it.

It's not personal, I just detest the on-line (or elsewhere for that matter) encouragement of raping trees for bark.

And I'm not that impressed with bullshit either, and that's how this thread got here (started out pandering to the love of plants and was caught out).

ed

Edited January 27, 2008 by reshroomED

[XipeTotec]

CS made a big blue there.

Your three-letter posts were much more amusing.

i was actually trying to be helpful.... i put up with misspelt words for quite a while before I downloaded the aussie dictionary for the little red lines.

[t st tantra]

how long do obtusifolia live?

do young plants germinate under adults?[or do a group come up where an old tree has died?]

t s t .

[Coschi]

eh geeez

well firstly I don't think someone who disagrees with me is a fuckhead, everyone is entitled to their opinion and a point of view in a discussion of which i'm all happy to hear

but for many, many reasons i do think you're a fuckhead yes Sina

it's one of those instinct things, in fact I can't think of anyone else i've picked up that vibe from here.. i'm sure they're around but over time i guess i've come to form some kind of opinion of you.. anyway

if you saw the site you'd see it was obvious that the one person, at the same time, in the same style and same way made an impact on all these trees. My point the whole time has been to pick wisely and take appropriately - ie: pick a big old one and take the whole lot; don't expose every one you see to infection and risk of death. Both obtus and maidenii tend to die by 25years i believe, so catching a 20 something year old plant and taking the whole lot is something special IMHO

that's it

[ballzac]

Yeah, I was just curious as to what camp you were putting me in.

Definitely no offense meant, and apologies if any was taken.

All's cool. You're a nice guy and I wouldn't want some stupid online debate to cause us to dislike each other in person. Same goes for anyone I HAVEN'T met too. I think it would be a pretty petty person who would dislike someone on first meeting because of an online disagreement.

Zac, if you're not advocating killing trees for a bit of dimitri, I really have no problem with you.

If you are, and you keep it to yourself, I'll say sweet FA about it.

It's not personal, I just detest the on-line (or elsewhere for that matter) encouragement of raping trees for bark.

And I'm not that impressed with bullshit either, and that's how this thread got here (started out pandering to the love of plants and was caught out).

ed

It seems that Coschi did what you, and more particularly El Duderino, seem to want. i.e even though he has killed trees, he came on here and demonized that practice. It is only because people (I think Sina did it first) picked him up on it that the topic of this thread did a 360. Yet everyone seems to be saying that if you are going to kill trees then don't talk about it...well isn't that exactly what coschi DID?

[Coschi]

FYI what I said from the start wasn't bullshit

some time ago (long before i started this thread might I add) I did do some not so nice things, but I learnt, so get the fuck over yourselves

who the fuck do you think you all are anyway? have you tried dmt? are you absolutely sure that your dmt was obtained in an ethical way? how about your bud or your furniture or your cacti?

Sina didn't pick up on shit, he reads and deserves a big fucking medal because he can search all my posts on various forums over the last god knows how long and say "this is what coschi said, etc.. etc.."

eat a fucking dick

edit: and i'm not saying go, kill, rape trees for everything they've got. It's hardly news that there are probably a lot of people doing it here, all i'm trying to do is put forth a better thought on the way to do things (and what not to do) and i'm the bad guy.. i'm a total tool

Edited January 28, 2008 by Coschi

[incognito]

but for many, many reasons i do think you're a fuckhead yes Sina

it's one of those instinct things, in fact I can't think of anyone else i've picked up that vibe from here.. i'm sure they're around but over time i guess i've come to form some kind of opinion of you.. anyway

this is getting rediculous.

coschi i think u need to pull ur head in big time.

i still cant see why limbs cant be pruned of succesive trees and utilized for spice if this is ones inclination.

i mean i think it is fairly bigoted to say that acacias live to 25 yrs and taking a whole one at 20 yrs is Okay.

what a crock of fuken bullshit. u are removing a home for animals, genetics from the area, and probably opening up an area for weed infestation, erosion and a whole list of bad effects.

acacias do respond well to pruning, i used to have 3 clients with acacia hedges. why not take a substantial branch, which may be crossing another branch/have borers etc impeding the plants natural growth, of say 3 trees, improving the health of the trees and obtaining what ur looking for, without killing...anything?>

what is it about spice? this so called 'spirit molecule' that can cause peoples personalitys to become such pretentious,self righteous wankers suffering some twisted god complex? ive seen it 1000 times, and fuk its gross.

and ultimately they go down,,,hard.

anyways whats with the insults?? i think we, as a community, need to endorse more sustainable tree harvesting techniques than ringbarking or the 'removal' of whole trees. common sense isnt it? i mean im not the sharpest tool in the shed, but kinda makes perfectsense to me. and the fact that people have come down hard on the practice of ringbarking, removal of entire specimens, to me is applaudable.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jono

[Coschi]

...that can cause peoples personalitys to become such pretentious,self righteous wankers suffering some twisted god complex?

hehe directing that at me are ya?

ehh that's alright

Honestly typing on a computer sometimes makes it a little tough (for me at least) to show much expression. Some people can do wonders when it comes to words, other people (like me) just need to be known and understood. but regardless.. think what you like, all of you

i know the insults are poor and lack integrity, but to be honest i just don't give a shit anymore

peace