A sad site (image heavy)

[Coschi]

Hey all

Took a ride to just out of Melbourne in search of acacia obtusifolia.

Found a nice patch with some massive old trees, but it broke my heart to see them in such an unhealthy state

we're talking 20 something year old trees

look at the size of this mother!

is believe this is the sign of flowering just about to start

according to WorldWideWattle they flower Nov-Jan, but the majority being in hotter NSW, so these are probably a month or so behind..

the spot had around 20 trees, with about five being at least 20 years old

what hurt was the fact that every single tree (except the bubs) had had significant amounts of lower trunk bark removed

the result being that the side of the tree where the bark was removed has completely died, all branches have no leaves or just dead leaves, the majority of the branches on the other side looked OK. I'm actually surprised they hadn't died completely, but i guess trees have their own survival mechanisms

something of concern though was that some of the more badly affected trees are exhibiting signs of unhealthiness on their phyllodes (i don't know what i'm talking about, but to me these didn't look too healthy)

If the fool who took the bark is reading this, you should have picked wisely and taken one large, older trees and stopped there. Plant a few trees for the life you took (elsewhere, perhaps even in Melbourne). The area is established and will continue to grow, IF people keep preservation in mind. From a large tree, you would have got far more bark than the amounts you took combined, and you wouldn't have put almost every single tree in the area at risk. If you found them, then you probably know the story of how the got there in the first place. This was an extremely flukey situation, please show a little more respect for these troopers

[Sparkster]

This is why I'm more than happy for 'alternative medicines' to remain outside pop culture as much as possible and used by those who at least have some damn respect for nature.

[apothecary]

I think this is pretty amusing statement Sparkster, considering curandero like Maria Sabina said similar things about people like you and me!

[Sparkster]

True.

I guess when you open the door to people the good go with the bad...

[Mycot]

The pics seem to show how unthinking the person is towards the plants and nature. So wastefull that so many trees were damaged in such a vandalistic fashion that may mean the death of trees rather than one properly harvested.

The use of leaves rather than bark seems to me much better in terms of sustainability. Until we're growing them as fast as they're being taken it may be the most sustainable approach towards this species.

Vandalizing our native forests is not on.

[tonic]

As I've said before. Why can't people just leave those poor plants alone!!!! It's f**king appalling to see this. What about conservation? What about the spirit of the plant? For that matter it's life? Grow your own if you want to rape them, just leave the wild ones alone. If you can't resist destroying our native flora, please do it ethically and DO NOT put the plants at risk FFS! Careless harvesting [or harvesting at all from the wild is disgraceful IMO and shouldn't be done at all]. Plant atleast five healthy seedlings of good genetic diversity at and around the site of destruction or hopefully just leave the plants alone. Greedy bastards!! I hope the spirits of the plants get you back for casting negative and destructive ripples into the pools of the universe.

I didn't spend over 5 years as a bushland regenerator, helping the bush to survive, to see humans come in and shamelessly raping the plants for purely selfish reasons. We need to conserve all our native flora as best we can if it is to survive for the future generations to enjoy. I would have thought people who were into plant teachings would have had much more respect for the actual teachers, I guess I was wrong.

Whoever did this should be ashamed....Disgraceful.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Phosphene_Dream

[MORG]

Fuck that. Hopefully not a sign of worse to come for the obtusi of east Australia.

This should be a thread that gets linked to when new members ask, "Where would I find some obtusifolia and how do I harvest it?"

[platypii]

Greedy bastards!! I hope the spirits of the plants get you back for casting negative and destructive ripples into the pools of the universe.

Don't cast your own though. Trees are slow to anger and quick to forgive.

[wandjina]

On the way to EGA passed through an area outside Camden that was once filled with Obs apparently, and alot of ppl knew about it...we walked quite a way up the old fire trail, and not even one!

It had been 7-8 yrs since my friend had been for a walk there, he grew up in the area... but we couldn't find a single along the road or in the wider area. Quite sad and dissapointing...the trees in that little patch may have been unique.

[ferret]

 

well it seems like im going against the grain of most opinions voiced here, but while it does look like the harvesting was done quite carelessly, shouldn't any real 'conservationist' worth his salt be more concerned about preserving our native forest and not encouraging the spread of a non-locally indigenous species?

[Mycot]

On the way to EGA passed through an area outside Camden that was once filled with Obs apparently, and alot of ppl knew about it...we walked quite a way up the old fire trail, and not even one!

It had been 7-8 yrs since my friend had been for a walk there, he grew up in the area... but we couldn't find a single along the road or in the wider area. Quite sad and dissapointing...the trees in that little patch may have been unique.

Quite disgusting and likely not the only instance of this type of thing happening.

Valuable genotypes are being lost.

[The Dude]

well it seems like im going against the grain of most opinions voiced here, but while it does look like the harvesting was done quite carelessly, shouldn't any real 'conservationist' worth his salt be more concerned about preserving our native forest and not encouraging the spread of a non-locally indigenous species?

Definitely true, but as far as I know, these trees ARE indegenous to the locality. I doubt the dmt enthusiasts were planting acacias 20 years ago so it's safe for me to say its a local.

Anyway.. I was thinking about this a bit. Humans have already geo-formed this planet to such a high degree through selective breeding, selective culling and pretty much doing what we want. Is it not in our ecology's best interest to plant ethno trees (consciousness expansion being the goal of all life IMHO), and the carry on effect of such an action (mass consciousness alteration) would enlighten people to the necessity of saving nature.

I think our actions are always irreversible, so instead of trying to emulate the ecology we found here naturally before we raped it. Is it not better to now choose the 'optimum' plants to grow in place of what we've demolished anyway?

For instance all the farmland with no return at all that is really nothing more than costs of food OVER-production, to meet some fake demand that means most food is thrown away regardless. Could this farmland not be better suited for Acacia or Cacti plantations. Even Weed plantations, which is likely to take over everything else. If nothing else is growing this seems the best option. Having said that, natural ecologies have this really nice balance and to emulate that... we have to be smarter than millions of years of evolution. We were so smart in devestating it, we may as well wise up in fixing it now.

Edited December 15, 2007 by El Duderino

[ferret]

it seems the seed was introduced from e. gippsland on a bulldozer. i just thought it was a bit silly for people to be getting worked up and talking conservation and regeneration when the plant in question does not actually belong there at all.

if these people really wanted to conserve this area of bush shouldnt they be encouraging the removal of them and any other potentially weedy human-introduced species?

but yeah, i do agree these plants should be cultivated to try and stop the impact on natural populations, just not in natural bushland.

I think our actions are always irreversible, so instead of trying to emulate the ecology we found here naturally before we raped it. Is it not better to now choose the 'optimum' plants to grow in place of what we've demolished anyway?

no, definately not. the plants that are growing there naturally are the 'optimum' plants for the area, that is why they are there in the first place!

[Vertmorpheus]

Remember that onceupon a time, old growth forest was just "the forest"... and before that it was just scrub... and before that it was "hey, look at all these things coming up after that rain!".

Australia is the ultimate example of things changing constantly, yet very slowly.

I don't think, in the scheme of things, the planet will hold it against you if you plant tusis in a hickory area, or maidens in a baileyana area... any and all are better than camphor laurels, jacarandas, raisin trees, bla bla. nature has this crazy habit of not moralising, or having expectations of itself to act in any particular way. there is just change.

meanwhile, if nothing else is growing.... then i really dont think the gleaming emerald ganja fields of tomorrow will do all that well either. Whatever pops up there naturally, even weedy things, "useless" things at least is holding onto a good whack of the available fertility etc... go knocking down the scant cover its managed to develop in the hopes of a self sustaining drug paddock, and I reckon we'd just end up hungry and straight.

whilst massive drug plantations would be lovely, I think it'd probably be a nice touch to chuck in a few other things too like plants used for making drugs other than the ones it takes to make Friday more rewarding.Oddly enough (sit down, everyone) there's actually quite a few ppl around that aren't into getting fucked up if they can help it. I also doubt that simply feeding plant x to person y is going to necessarily help them reach the same conclusions the rest of us have. Especially given most of "us" thought that way a long time before we ever lit up. Make of it what you will... but I think if you have to be "high" to know something as true, then maybe it wasnt entirely true to start with.

Oh, maybe the odd fruit tree or timber stand too, if there's any room left after the Mass Cactification Program.

The earth, plus plastic,

VM

Edited December 15, 2007 by Vertmorpheus

[mu!]

Oh, maybe the odd fruit tree or timber stand too, if there's any room left after the Mass Cactification Program.

bugger the fruit! MCP all the way

[Vertmorpheus]

haha, maybe we could compromise... perhaps a strain of autofermenting watermelon, mildly hallucinogenic mangos, particularly powerful plums... or at least gene splice the cacti so they taste like chocolate.

Easter just got a whole lot funnier,

VM

[Sparkster]

there's actually quite a few ppl around that aren't into getting fucked up if they can help it.

Especially given most of "us" thought that way a long time before we ever lit up. Make of it what you will... but I think if you have to be "high" to know something as true, then maybe it wasnt entirely true to start with.

VM, smart words. Thats all I'll say.

[ThunderIdeal]

camphor laurels

i think phosphene makes a good point - non-endemic species can still cause problems, even if they are aussies... still, i live in a climate with furious growth and i can't help but notice that the REAL environmental weeds are the serious problem. a few misplaced acacias might be a little bit too competitive to give the local flora a fair go but they've got nothing on the real bad boys. if you eradicate a bunch of nasty environmental weeds and replace with non-endemic species, and then make sure those weeds don't come back until the aussies are established, i still think you've done this countryside an incredible favour.

[~shameless~]

Good point

To second that, the Obtuse in east gippsland can be only a temporary resident in SOME localities (like plantations) , slowly dying off once the lager Eucy's become established,- could take along time,

Quite an important species in beating the other weeds back

Hey?????? does any one know wether this species has the nitrogen fixating capabilities , like other species of acacia do? They do grow in some pretty poor soils

[ThunderIdeal]

that's a good point you make there too, if there's no pre-existing flora larger than acacias then helping them to establish is probably speeding up the natural progression to a proper forest.

i don't think ANY natives have the powerful N-fixation that exotic legumes do. to answer your question though i would just look for root nodules, and pinkness within the larger nodules is supposed to prove that the nodules are "infected" with the necessary microorganisms (rhizobium etc).

if the site is going to be looked after occasionally, and for some reason you need to take advantage of powerful N-fixation, i would interplant with lucaena (sp?) for tropics-ish climate (it's a serious weed so be careful), tagasaste for temperate climates, OR, just let legume vines grow up the trees. the CSIRO introduced any number of these to our countryside, thanks guys (NOT).

[mu!]

I hope it wasnt you Coschi who raped that poor tree

http://www.dmt-nexus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2476

Edited December 27, 2007 by mu.

[Conan Troutman]

I hope it wasnt you Coschi who raped that poor tree

http://www.dmt-nexus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2476

hahaha damn that all looks so familiar..

[Coschi]

bah nope,

i won't say i've never hit trees before because that would be a lie, but indeed i didn't do the damage shown at the top

the purpose of this thread was to let people know that if you're going to take bark from trees in nature, then you've got to do the right thing by them. Like I said picking one or two of a bunch and taking the whole thing is what should be done, not fucking with every one you can find

[~shameless~]

Thanx thunder!!

[Conan Troutman]

bah nope,

i won't say i've never hit trees before because that would be a lie, but indeed i didn't do the damage shown at the top

the purpose of this thread was to let people know that if you're going to take bark from trees in nature, then you've got to do the right thing by them. Like I said picking one or two of a bunch and taking the whole thing is what should be done, not fucking with every one you can find

Ahhh well looks like u gave those ones a fair battering too

...and A.obtus a noxious weed in vic