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apothecary

'Risk of more crime' if drug offenders' welfare cut

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Ignore the pre-election bullshit in the last couple of paragraphs.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/18/2094097.htm

The Federal Government's key advisory group on drugs says it wants to see more details on the Coalition's plan to quarantine the welfare payments of convicted drug offenders.

Prime Minister John Howard has announced that a re-elected Coalition government would take control of at least 12 months' worth of welfare payments for criminals convicted of offences involving heroin, cocaine or amphetamines.

Australian National Council on Drugs executive director Gino Vumbaca says there is a risk that drug users would resort to crime or other means to pay for their habits.

He says if the policy is to be effective it would need to be accompanied by extra funding for treatment and rehabilitation programs.

"What we have to be careful of here is often there are good intentions for policy, but you have to look at potential or unintended consequences," he said.

"What we don't want to do is make a policy change where we end up placing children or families at more risk or the community at more risk from levels of crime.

"Australia needs to dramatically introduce its access to treatment so that people with substance abuse can seek assistance."

Greens, Labor respond

Greens leader Bob Brown says the Coalition's plan targets users instead of drug traffickers.

"This seems to be [going to] cut them off, leave them isolated, leave them more desperate," he said.

But Senator Brown has backed another part of the Coalition's proposed drug crackdown, which would see extra employment assistance for those with substance abuse problems and a federal push for nationally consistent penalties for drug offences.

Labor leader Kevin Rudd has not ruled out backing the plan to quarantine welfare payments.

Mr Rudd says he will consider the policy, but has questioned the timing of the announcement.

"I'll have a look at it. I always think these things should be treated on their merit," he said.

"But I go back to the core proposition: if you're serious about a plan for the nation's future, then if you've been in office for 11 years, what is it that causes Mr Howard to conclude that these plans could be taken seriously, when they're suddenly put out there, with only a few days to go?"

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First he increases penalties on parents for when their kids skip school. Now he's going to cut off welfare payments to... the majority of welfare recipients. Unemployment + Apathy + Dissilusionment often leads to drug use. It's just adding salt into the wounds when in both these instances if there is a problem it should be sorted through communication and help not through some arbitrary laws that fuck up people in an already desperate situation... ah of course they're all dealing hard drugs... and fucking with their income for past 'mistakes' in getting caught taking drugs or whatever... is sure to make them become more productive members of society not turning to crime. :rolleyes:

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there is a risk that drug users would resort to crime or other means to pay for their habits.

ha ha ha

i don't know ov anyone on the dole who can afford a measly $200 a day habit without resorting to crime anyway.

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not every one of those people has a $200 a day habit. anyway, that might be beside the point. every dollar of welfare that an addict receives is another dollar that doesn't have to be thieved.

sorry to bring the election into this, but this is why i'm looking forward to a labor fed gov. again and again, the liberals prove that they don't give a shit about people. everyone thinks back to labor leadership and thinks "tough times", but one of their stated aims is to look out for people or some such. i don't see much evidence of that from howard, i really think that he has been fucking us into the ground as best he can. that's probably what labor will do too, but i can dream.

vote green!

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Every dollar of welfare that an addict receives is another dollar that doesn't have to be thieved.

Haha I like that! if only we could all be on welfare than there wouldn't be any money to waste on ... the war in iraq for example.

everyone thinks back to labor leadership and thinks "tough times", but one of their stated aims is to look out for people or some such. i don't see much evidence of that from howard,

I don't see much evidence from Rudd either. The fact they call themselves labor probably means as much as the liberals calling themselves liberal. cuz they're all for liberties, well it's true just so long as they're corporate and not personal. The party name labor might as well imply economic slavery into essentially forced labor. Still change is necessary, they're all evil but if you kick them out occasionally it keeps them on their toes and they might even care about what we want.

vote green!

Hell yeah! especially in the senate they need to be there for a balance of power.

[edit] removed voting question that might confuse other voters. It's all good, point is, lower house all your preferences are counted, they don't ever choose what to do with your vote, apart from suggesting how to vote with them cards. UPPER HOUSE, is where they do what they want with your vote unless you number ALL the boxes, screw that! anyway I'm still voting for greens in upper house and I trust them with preferences, think here they give them to democrats and then labor anyway, then who knows but one of them will win I hope.

Edited by El Duderino

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i don't know about the nuances of our system, but this is interesting. i don't think it applies to the senate. there is a cut-off for what is considered to be a party with some reasonable support, maybe it's 150,000 votes nationwide? once a party has received that many votes, they are then eligible to receive money for every vote they get - something like fifty cents or a dollar. every election, labor and liberal make huge cash this way which MAY BE USED FOR CAMPAIGNING.

just because your party doesn't win anything, DOESN'T MEAN YOUR VOTE IS MEANINGLESS. at least your party gets a tiny sum of cash for advertising. of course it's good just to let the big parties know that they haven't earned your vote.

re: labor and liberal, of course i agree with you man. labor is just gonna be another pack of scumbags, like if the democrats win in the united states. i'm not quite conspirified enough to believe that in a two party system both parties are the same organisation.... provided that is true, then it's a matter of not letting any one government get too comfortable, as you say.

"I don't see much evidence from Rudd either. "

whether or not he does, at least he's going around SAYING that labor will look after the people.

i'm so disillusioned with government that i'll be happy simply to have a national leader who can pretend to be a human being. he went on rove for fux sake. that's not the same as costello having a dance on morning television, i think it shows actual humanity, something less than a complete removal from ordinary people.

that's honestly where it stands for me. it will be nice not to hate the PM's guts for once.

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I see where this COULD help where family's are involved as it would mean that kids would have access to food, clothing etc (although these items might soon be pawned for a fraction of what they are worth)

But my belief is children should not be in family's where there is hard core drug addiction. Take kids out of the equation and this is just an idiotic proposal, obviously aimed at getting votes from voters with no notion of what drug addiction involves or the consequences on the addict. People who have been unlucky enough to get caught for weekend misdeamenours would be unfairly discriminated against

Unemployment + Apathy + Dissilusionment often leads to drug use.

Really? I don't think so. I believe its more like

drug use often leads to Unemployment + Apathy + Dissilusionment

Most people I know who have run into trouble started with a job (usually at a young age) or straight out of school, usually living at home, had money to burn, lefty home, burnt too hard, became addicted, lost their job and then the downward spiral begins. problem is once you have been an addict it is very hard to reintegrate into the working society. there is often residual mental/anxiety problems, word gets around to potential employers about your past, when you do get some income its hard to resist old urges etc etc

I think howards an idiot saying "oh we'll just offer more job training as part of the package" First you have to totally repair their mental and physical capacity to reintegrate which requires kid gloves, lots of love and patience

I'd send them to an Iboga retreat and then 5 years living in a nature fishing to get food and living in a society where they learn to rebuild their trust in other people and themselves by becoming self sustaining and gaining an appreciation for all life.

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drug use often leads to Unemployment + Apathy + Dissilusionment

Or those effects lead to drug use, they're almost mutually causative of each other, its like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I know that people in desperate situations often turn to substance abuse where previously they were clean, that is those issues that lead them to substance abuse. It is the desperation itself that first sparks the interest in escapism, this exacerbates the situation of course and may cause further apathy / dissilusionment / lack of employment.

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