Thugs use goon bag to bash goths

[MrBumpy]

I just wish the overweight emos would stop trying to wear the same size tight pants as the skinny emos.

Muffin tops are unsightly no matter what subculture you subscribe to... especially on dudes.

-bumpy

[Torsten]

I started raving in 1988 and quickly got to like bellbottoms or phatties as they are now called. In the late 80's that was enough to get me beaten up at the Woden interchange [by some homeboys who probably started wearing phatties a few years later].

It just never made sense to me to hurt someone because they are different and I generally quite liked being different.

The anti raver sentiment probably never got as brutal as the anti emo sentiment is now, but I guess that's got a bit to do with the fact that emos really see themselves as victims before anyone even does anything to them. I still think they are interesting to watch [no, not just the kissing ones ] and certainly much more entertaining than the other 99% of the population.

[The Dude]

and certainly much more entertaining than the other 99% of the population.

haha if you're suggesting emos take up 1% of the population!?!

There is nothing of any interest to emos. Different? the oxymoronic existence of the emo phenomenon is interesting maybe, in that it is another example of the irony that is everpresent in this world. As consciousness continues to evolve it seems to take ever more rediculous examples of hypocrisy and fake-ness to awaken people to themselves, their own identity, their own hearts and minds.

Conformity is never interesting or cool, so fuck emos! I mean I won't hassle them in any way for being different I just laugh at what i consider an ever expanding joke at common sense and logic as they totally subvert the meaning of 'originality' hearing every emo claim originality in style/opinions/ideology is hillarious.

Personal responsibility for who you are is very scary indeed, lets just live in an illusion of free-will and instead have it dictated to us. I think I get where their depression stems from and it's not from their parents overbearing nature, but the confinement of conforming - which is comfortable for the fearsome but stagnates the soul and makes emos sad pandas... with their white faces and eye shadow.

Edited November 20, 2007 by El Duderino

[nothinghead]

I suspect you don't even know what emo is, ED. What does emo have to do with non-conformity?

[Ace]

In the late 80's that was enough to get me beaten up at the Woden interchange

Lol - Woden in Canberra? That interchange is still dodgy as buggery and there has always been a copshop within 20 metres of it! Of all the places I could be late at night - that interchange is NOT one of them! You certainly dont have to dress weird there to cop verbal and occasional physical abuse from deadshits passing by or acting (and usually dressing) as though they lived there permanently

I suspect you don't even know what emo is, ED. What does emo have to do with non-conformity?

Not sure if you do mate - emo is the shortened term for 'emotional'. Emo has pretty much always been based around non-conformity (especially these days), as have goths and god knows how many other sub-cultures. They dress/behave the way they do to be different, even though they are so common it is ironically pointless.

As for the emo and bogan [verbal] bashing - whats the point? I know plenty of great blokes/sheilas who would happily call themselves bogans/booners - the stereotype that they are all racist/homophobic/whatever is not applicable to all (some yes, but you certainly dont have to be a loud bogan to be any of these). Same goes for emos/goths - I'm sure that their fasion sense doesnt mean that they are dipshits or any different from you and me (other than maybe wanting a little attention or something, as expressed by their stand-out looks).

[incognito]

ED u gotsta drop that stereotyping stick of urs. Thats irony in itself, a guy who claims to be growing conciously, who is putting a whole heap of real people in one easy category so he can say 'fuck emos' thats real base irony man.Id like to hear what gives u this air of superiority over people. Or are u compensating for something maybee?

Maybee if u lose this part of ur personality u will be a bit farther on the road to a concious individual? whatever that is.

I will go one further... im gonna be all stereotypical here, that is, that ur a stereotypical TOOL FAN! fuck tool fans!! lol

see now we are both assholes.

edit- nah im sorry tool fans, u guys really are omnipotent (kidding, my stereotyping is no fairer than ED's,) i dont care what anyone says, this talk on emos' and goth's is in the same vein as racism to my line of thinking , maybee subconcious racist tendancies(cos its not cool to be racist anymore) spill out and feel the urge to bash some minority group.

Live and let live guys. whatever floats ur boat.

Edited November 20, 2007 by jono

[nothinghead]

Actually Ace, emo is the shortened term for "emotional hardcore", a genre that started in the 80s in places like DC, by bands like Rites of Spring, and later Moss Icon etc. It wasn't based around non-conformity at all, it was a term used to describe a different style of punk that was emerging. Do you have anything to counter this (that isn't based purely on your personal opinion)?

[AndyAmine.]

LOL, I remember the days of heavy raver discrimination. I started going to dance parties in 94' and because we were only in our early to mid teens we would always catch the train.

Some of the shit we used to cop along the way, especialy at footscray station and Flinders St was awful, although Im sure my brothers black party pants covered in white stars with a thick sequined strip down the side of each leg didnt help the situation hehe.

Luckily I never got beaten up but I know more than a few friends that did.. usualy for being 'raver faggots', 'faries' or 'freaks'.. hmmm, sounds similar to what I hear these days.. 'EMO faggots'...

Now, the whole 'raver' look is very much in fashion. well, was more than is but you get what I mean.

On a side note, I find little pot bellies on girls with hippsters and crop-tops quite attractive...

[foolsbreath]

On a side note, I find little pot bellies on girls with hippsters and crop-tops quite attractive...

LOL muffin tops, Yeah its cute when they are young

God I didn't just say that did I? Dirty old men

[Ace]

Cough - arguing with you is like arguing with myself. We both seem stubborn as buggery that our opinions are the right ones all of the time . I know that I dont know everything and I'm sure you dont either, but I love arguing with ya even if it is just to learn something, as I have numerous times before ().

In this instance I wont be arguing back - you have probably seen where the roots of the punk/emo generation came from (I wasnt around when punk started to emerge - I'm still a young tacker ), but I'll share what I can see in the current generation. The whole non-conformity take on things was always a big part of the scene (old and new *from what I've read*), especially the punk scene - the punk scene emerging from the generation after the hippies (an earlier non-conforming, free-spirited generation).

What appears to be the current 'emo generation' is just the 'aftermath' if you will, of the earlier punk generation. They are based around non-conformity *IME* - I have several mates (~20 years old) that are keen new-age emos/punks which have roots in the early punk scene (or at least thats where they claim they get their inspiration), but they mostly dress differently because they dont want to be boring and generic like the majority of people. Fact of the matter is that these days (and I'd assume the earlier days) non-conformity is what it is all about. Of course, a general love of punk music also plays into it, but the general dressing/looking/acting different from the 'mainstream' is all to do with avoiding conforming to current cultural standards. Wouldnt you agree?

Very similar to getting a tattoo - most people get them to rebel against conformity (usually up tight parents, I have noticed), but of course there are some that get them for other reasons such as a representation of family members, friends, life experience, etc. I'm sure the same would be for Emos/Goths - some against conformity, some for a love of the music/lifestyle/etc.

Also, watching a doco just the other day (name escapes me now - I watched about a dozen in one hit...) about how from the explosion of the hippie era the following punk generation was born, mostly to rebel against the 'oddness' of the whole stereotypical hippie image. Funnily enough, the way they went about it was also very 'odd' compared to the mainstream culture of the time. Both were about breaking free of the mainstream, finding something new and different, rebelling against everything generic. Punk was the rebellion against both hippies and the mainstream of the time (average white collar workers, etc), but its likeness to the hippie era (breaking out of the boring) are so similar its almost ironic.

Yep, this is based purely on my personal opinion, but I cant seem to see why we'd all be posting on the forums if we couldnt share our opinions/experiences...

Anyway, as you can see, I dont know everything. But I'm learning

Edit - typo

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ace

[chilli]

It wasn't based around non-conformity at all, it was a term used to describe a different style of punk that was emerging.

Yeah, because punk has nothing to do with non-conformity.

[The Dude]

Punk was the rebellion against both hippies and the mainstream of the time (average white collar workers, etc), but its likeness to the hippie era (breaking out of the boring) are so similar its almost ironic.

Hehe yeah i found this quite ironic recently when listening to a few bad religion songs and a few newish punk tracks on the radio or wherever that had me thinking about matters of love/fear, being good to your neighbour and existential questioning... all mirroring a 'hippy' tendency even though that was what they were rebelling against. - I think the punk ideology agrees with the message, but they've got a more abbrassive method of delivering it. The idea of passive resistance doesn't sit well with the punk ethos, punk wants a revolution!

'Fuck Emos' may seem a little harsh. It's not that I'm emophobic, the fuck emo sentiments is more towards the ideology of brainwashing masses through fashion and trends. The very attraction to this trend of fashion is the idea that it is non-trendy and anti-fashion. I stand against hypocrisy in any form, except my own cuz that causes some kind of split personality phenomenon as i try to also defend myself.

It's laughable that there are dedicated sites on how to be emo that somehow try to also promote its non-conformity... but you Must conform to this standard first.. vans shoes ok, ramones shirt ok... More irony as Ramones would be the furthest cry from depressing emo music, punk - yes, emo hardcore slashing wrists... not quite.

I'll give the girls the fact a lot of them are hot, but it's hard to feel attraction to a vacant mind. It's still a rebellious mind, it just rebels for the sake of it though, with no direction of where to go. so it must just go with the flow of the mainstream rebellion. The mainstream underground, the mainstream subculture.

I think Irony is the way our universe tries to show us we are what we're not, we are a mirror image of ourselves, by nonconforming we show conformity. By being independent business minded people our minds are dependent on business. By owning plants.. the plants own us as it's will is made manifest through us; its' tools. Of course they are also helpful tools. I rather be owned by a plant than a corporation. I rather be owned by a kind of altruistic collective will to do good, than be owned by fear of missing some payment here or there or not having enough money to fit in. Eitherway free-will is a never-ending question for me as everything is some form of conformity.. I conform to the ideology of originality

Jono, I don't often raise anti-emo sentiments, as many others I know have, one person would start fights with them just for being emos. Needed a scapegoat on which to vent his frustrations, that dude is an even bigger dickhead than any emo i know, so there ya go.

...point is the anti-emo sentiments are the same as my anti-bourgeois middleclass totally apathetic to the world so long as interest rates don't rise- sentiments. I'm against most any form of going with the flow. Programmed thinking hinders ones ability to see for themselves. It's impossible almost to be an individual though as the oceans of consciousness flow through all, it's all a matter of where and with whom you swim.

Perhaps the anti-emo sentiments raises from my own inability to be an individual. I see in them what I most hate about myself and project that feeling onto them.

Edited November 21, 2007 by El Duderino

[FungalFractoids]

It's all just lame marketing- most "subcultures" are...

[Torsten]

It's all just lame marketing- most "subcultures" are...

I think the subculture comes first. The marketing follows a little later. Like, no one was marketing rave to me in the late 80's. It was driven from the inside of the community. In the early 90's various business interests discovered it and started marketing to it. It doesn't really affect you too much if you were there beforehand. You retain an understanding of why you started it which was well beyond following a trend.

I am sure emo had a similar beginning and if it didn't then at least goth did. Eventually it all ends in commercial exploitation. But that doesn't have to be bad. A famous european DJ once said that any worthwhile underground can't stagnate - it has to keep going, evolve and eventually emerge. When it emerges it immediately spawns the needs for the next underground scene.

Ever since rave became commercial I was waiting for the next underground, but I missed it. Only noticed that emo existed a year or two ago. Now I am looking out for the next one. I hope it will be on the dance end of the spectrum cos the dance music scene is laughable.

Emo news!

 

[jasemateau]

well it is funny none the less about the the emo going for the only prize a bogan woud see as invaluabe.

i dunno about this emo stuff, it was a surprised to see them on the streets of brisbane some time ago.

i certainly do not agree with all the women being fugly.

some of them are stunner's!!!!

maybe i remeber the goths better than the emo's altho they dont seem any different to how i remember them in the 90's

in 1991 i think it was i went to the cure concert in melbourne, and man was i out of place in my button up blue shirt, stood out lke dogs balls in all that black.

and well fuck some of the chicks faces were stunning, yet all this black bullshit thay felt compelled to wear was just wrong.

goths back then were stunners. it was almost a pre-reqizit,(fuck it dunno how to spell it)

but hey i loved the cure back then, and the show was unbelivable, pissed off i missed them this year in hong kong dang it!!!!

bogans as they are labeled are just wanna be tough guys getting a buzz out of victory of the battle. (but never succed)

my mums ex BF had 2 sons both older than me and were the perfect bogans. the eldest was 6 foot 7, and even tho i was a skater, a known enemy of bogans'

they could never kick my in any fight coz i had alot of training in martial arts lol!!!!! (man that was ages ago)

but i never proclaimed myself as tough!!!!

but i must say tho i dont mind seeing emo's they dont bother me so i dont give a shit what they do.

its the frigin agressive drunks i hate!!!!! no matter what subculture they belong to if any!!!!!

Edited November 21, 2007 by jasemateau

[Kenny Blister]

"Suppression of dissent is instead paradoxically achieved by allowing media to absorb (or “co-opt”) all dissent as image. Once processed as commodity, all rebellion is reduced to the image of rebellion, first as spectacle, and last as simulation" - Bey

El Duderino, you'd probably find Guy Debord's Society of the Spectacle a good read.

I don't think the modern emo claims to be anti- anything. I think they just want to feel a sense of belonging. Most of them will grow out of the image anyway.

Ummm, have we defined 'bogan'?

I get around in footy shorts and blue singlets. Does that make me one?

[Ace]

Ummm, have we defined 'bogan'?

I dont think the bogan stereotype (beer guzzling, sports crazed, car loving, womanising, chauvinistic, heavily tatooed, rock music loving type of aussie, commonly dubbed 'bogan' or 'booner') applies to the masses that would happily be called one or cop 'bogan' as an insult. I like to think that I'm a bogan, but I certainly dont go treating my partner differently because she is female; I am not a heavy alcoholic (the very much the opposite); I dont mind a bit of footy, but I dont lose sleep over it; I enjoy working on old cars; I dont have tatts; I am an average white aussie; I respect others around me; I'm not racist; I hold down a stable job and support my family; etc, etc. Some of these things reflect the stereotype, but a lot of them are vastly different.

Stereotypes are are simply labels for different things. Its like whacking a bunch of similar people into a big jar and marking them 'bogans' or 'emos' or 'nerds' or 'thugs' or 'workaholics' or 'dole bludgers' or whatever. In a way the stereotype just degrades the diversity that is contained within the group of people (or whatever it relates to), making it somewhat offensive and in the end, a bit of a waste of time. People have so many individual quirks and habits and lifestyles that even though they like to find a niche (a fairly common trait in us humans), such as a bogan or emo, they still have so much diversity and individual/unique traits that they will often overlap into several or many different 'categories'.

To say that bogans are any worse than a white collar worker or whatever other group is a waste of time IMO - I reckon everyone eventually finds their own little stereotype to run with. Its funny, a lot of people want to be different/unique/individual and avoid stereotypes, but they usually tend to join many similar people to make their own little groups which then become stereotypes (possibly where the whole punk scene came from). Its all a bit odd, but I think it comes down to our instincts (probably just as our earliest ancestors would have) - we all like to belong, a few of us want to stand out (even if it is only a cry for attention from the opposite sex or whatever).

Ahh well, I dont mind being called a bogan I think it covers more of my habits than other 'labels', though I like to think that I am somewhat above the negative associations with the word (racism, sexist, etc, etc). All in all I think its just a way for us to process the world around us.

Edit: BTW, I used to work with a girl who would say that the term 'Bogan' comes from the people living around the Bogan River in NSW. No idea how truthful this is, but it could be where the term originates from. Not sure why you'd call your mates the same name as the local river...?

Edited November 22, 2007 by Ace

[The Dude]

"Suppression of dissent is instead paradoxically achieved by allowing media to absorb (or “co-opt”) all dissent as image. Once processed as commodity, all rebellion is reduced to the image of rebellion, first as spectacle, and last as simulation" - Bey

El Duderino, you'd probably find Guy Debord's Society of the Spectacle a good read.

I recall that from a visual arts lecture. I think the idea is that all of our desires and therefore behaviours are marketed to us and we end up living for the spectacle of observing others.. think the latest trend in reality tv. we live for consumption of prepackaged life... instead of living it.

I'll definitely need to read it to get a better idea.

I don't think the modern emo claims to be anti- anything. I think they just want to feel a sense of belonging.

They want to belong by claiming originality with the rest of the pack.. reminds me of a bad religion lyric "We were different! just like all the other kids"

Ace, nice writeup about stereotypes. The funny thing about them though is that they so often match up. see a dreadhead and there's a multitude of assumptions one can make, most of which will be true. It's like our behaviours really are mediated by our environment and interactions with other people, it defines who we are. ALthough you are certainly right that the spark of originality/individuality is still present... in individuals. wherever they emerge.

[phloom]

what happened to the goon stories?!! its degenerated quickly to emo/goth psychoanalysis.

I reckon if your older than about 20-21 your definition of emo is outdated already. Nothing is so black and white (as the goth make-up) there are so many shades of grey. So many hybrids.

I could start on the anime/cosplay kids? the geeky hip hoppers? hardcore hippies? feral neoroscientists? the privelidged private school ice addicts?

When I was living with a bunch of bogan/skater types we had a convention called 'goon wednesday', which is a farce because there was goon everyday. If we had no money we'd loiter around town and the skate park and hassle younger more soft beings for 'donations to the goon fund'.

San Bernardino is the definition of no self esteem if you ask me.

[phloom]

emo gods The Used

[ThunderIdeal]

that's gotta be the best post of all.

even though i enjoyed this thread, isn't phloom exactly right?

fuck violent wankers. "violent wanker" is not a stereostype.

if i attacked innocent passers-by because of their clothes, i'd need to drink 3 litres of goon a day to live with myself too. also, the second dude was attacking the females. aussie males are just so..... TOUGH! and HARD! this is probably the stereotypical "blokey" aussie anyway, but i hope it's only a small minority.

anyway, maybe it balances out somehow. from what i've seen, intoxicated folk are only capable of fighting people much lighter than them, or people who are also drunk. so, one day they will probably pick a fight with the wrong dude (or chick!!), they'll take a swing, which will be dodged, then their pathetic ass will stumble to the ground, and maybe an emo will remember them and piss on their head or something? balance.

[chilli]

Yeah just to be clear by bogans I don't mean people with mullets and flannel shirts, I mean people who are ignorant, aggressive, racist wankers.

[FungalFractoids]

More goon, less emo...

They were 'goths' anway, and I think we can all agree that the Brisbane Time has a good intimate knowledge of the subtle nuances that separate the two subcultures- so their word in final nagdammit.

[XipeTotec]

Yeah just to be clear by bogans I don't mean people with mullets and flannel shirts, I mean people who are ignorant, aggressive, racist wankers.

stfu you new zealand sheep fucker... oh, and the earth is flat.

[XipeTotec]

Ummm, have we defined 'bogan'?

I like to think that I'm a bogan, but I certainly dont go treating my partner differently because she is female;

no, you bash her like u would a bloke!!! lol!!