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Increase in sensitivity to caffeine

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A long time ago, when I was a small and feckless lass ( no that's not a typrographical error ) I was prone to real overindulgence on dopaminergic compounds. 'd also been drinking 8+ cups of coffee a day since I was twelve and never once noticed any effects frm caffeine

About eight years ago I had acute liver failure ( not surprising really wink.gif ) and cut down on everything, including the coffee- three cups a day only. And was a much nicer person for it too though local opinion may well differ wink.gif

I've been doing fitness classes and eating better and getting healthier as I get older- the scary part is still to follow so bear with me...

The last few weeks I've been seriously noticing an effect from caffeine ( in coffee... decaf is an abomination ). A couple of days ago I stayed out and drank about twice my daily limit for a couple of days and had real problems getting to sleep for two nights, even when I took melatonin. Three cups close together today has me hitting the ceiling

This has never happened before and I'm wondering whether this rather sudden spate of effects is a signal of rapid onset liver failure, or whether I'm becoming normal ( which is worse? I could wind up a born-again Tupperware salesperson... )

I don't place a lot of faith in standard blood Liver Function Tests- while they're handy as a yardstick, from experience I don't regard them a conclusive as I've had good LFTs for a few years now but always seem to find room for improvement in health and mood

Why the sudden increase in effect? Any answers which revolve around complicated things like cytochromes and P450 should be phrased in words of one syllable or less

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I dont really think your liver alarm is going off (be advised I'M NOT A DOCTOR).

What I think is that your body was habituated to a certain level of caffeine and then you reduced the amount and after a little while your body adjusted to the change. Then when you had lots more than usual everything above your current habituation level (everything past the first few cups) caused the (over?)stimulating effect.

On the subject of funky livers, have you got into milk thistle seed? Its got several odd-ball flavones in it that do wonders for the liver. I use it as a preventative measure because I'm a chemist and some of those common solvents and reagents cause damage to the liver (why do the GOOOOD smelling solvents have to be hepatotoxic? Now OSHA wont let me roll around naked in my chem lab smearing isooctane and naphthalene all over my body- damn that sounds good.

Mmmmm Naphthalene smile.gif

Sweeeet Isooctane biggrin.gif

Now you see why I'm on a computer and not out on a date. Organic chemistry is a Very Rare fetish and it scares alot of people off.

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Originally posted by Auxin:

What I think is that your body was habituated to a certain level of caffeine and then you reduced the amount and after a little while your body adjusted to the change. /QUOTE]

I would think that too, if the change had happened over a couple of months. I cut down coffee about eight years ago...the caffeine only kicked in two weeks ago. I get a serious bounce after one cup, that's only started happenning really recently...

On the subject of funky livers, have you got into milk thistle seed?

Love it! I always have a bottle round the house, the only thing better than St Mary's Thistle is l-methionine IMO

Now you see why I'm on a computer and not out on a date. Organic chemistry is a Very Rare fetish and it scares alot of people off.

Are you reading my brain or something? I was only complaining of this very thing on Saturday. I went to a gig in town and ran into some ppl I used to know years ago before I started working in TC.

Conversation would be momentarily scintillating til they asked what I was doing, when I told them I was running a TC lab they immediately became monosyllabic and then vaporised into the social ether.

I thought it was a dyke thing, you know, wimmin being anti- or scared of big ole paternalistic science and stuff *yawn* but both my companions that night, one of either sex and both straight and they said they had exactly the same problem- as soon as you tell ppl you work in a scientific field the conversation falters and they run away.

You get that?

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Damn, just realised i posted this in Seed and Plant, instead of EB forums, sorry Rev, move it if you want

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this won't help at all.. wink.gif but...i've always tried to think of caffeine as a metabolic credit card...

if you're to the point where the adrenals are shrivelled & black (those are not medical terms), caffeine has little effect..and the more you abuse it, the further your poor body goes into debt.

increased incidence of osteoporosis has been suggested for ages but yeah, decaf coffee..what's the point?? i think the beans are yuck..as it is, it plays havoc on the digestion..there may be emerging evidence of a correlation between decaf & rheumatoid arthritis..

interestingly to me, suicide rate is significantly lower amongst coffee drinkers..

those into the nootropic experimentation combine more moderate amounts of caffeine (or other methylxanthine blends) with phenylalanine...my wonky memory here, but i kinda recall reading something about coffee or caffeine dependents being deficient in PEA-2 and therefore benefiting from phenylalanine supplementation..having a mildly stimulating effect of its own & also potentiating that vile black brew..

so anyway, perhaps at that time, dopamine levels were low, and the adrenals were under the weather due to over exertion and/or nutritional deficit, dietary indiscretion..you were somewhat overdrawn?

[This message has been edited by coin (edited 10 June 2002).]

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"as soon as you tell ppl you work in a scientific field the conversation falters and they run away. You get that?"

OH Yeah, I get that static. Thats why I now talk to beakers, test tubes, plants, etc. more than I talk to people. But then you get emotionally attached to the beakers and its hell when they go away. I lost one of my favorite girls just a few days ago, a sweet old half liter graduated HEAVY walled pyrex beauty that graced me with her service for the last four years of her life. Dead at the tender age of eight to ten! She will be missed. At least my Vigreaux columns haven't left me yet, now That would hurt.

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I went public singing and dancing with my test tube plants when Piers was here after EB smile.gif

I didn't realise the tape was running...oops

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Not a damn thing of late...oh hang on, started eating more vegetables, especially greens

Started taking 5HTP regularly about three months ago

Went back to fitness classes 1 month ago

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the answer is really quite simple.

It relates to the threshold of stimulant drug effects in easy terms and to receptorsite protection in the techincal sense.

When you constantly release huge amounts of adrenaline and dopamine, your receptors eventually pull back so that the neurotransmitter cannot attach anymore. This is so they don't get worn out. So to get thje same effect from a drug, you will need to release larger amounts of the transmitter, so that it reaches more and more receptors to make up for the ones that have retracted.

So when you stop taking hardcore stimulants like those dopaminergic compounds you overindulged in, your receptorsites slowly recover (slowly, simply because you didn't stop all stimulants) and then when you release the smaller amount of transmitters, they are suddenly much more effective (as they have more receptors to bind with).

Also, keep in mind that caffeine stimulation is a combo of adrenaline and dopamine. As we know for certain that your dopamine levels were up (ie down) shit creek, the stimulant and euphoric effect due to dopamine would have been missing from your experience, leaving only the adrenaline effect.

basically you are normalising wink.gif and there is nothing to worry about.

[This message has been edited by Torsten (edited 11 June 2002).]

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I'm becoming normal and you tell me there's nothing to worry about?

What happens if I wake up one morning with a burning desire to watch Home & Away?

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DL : then pray that you are craving to watch the Dodgey 80's episodes that they show in the afternoon instead of the prime-time one. (just convince yourself you are laughing at the mullets...thats how I get through my day)

-bumpy

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i was kinda trying to say what torsten said wink.gif

only i think with caffeine indulgence, the body creates more & more adenosine receptors..(ie, upregulation vs downregulation)

it's this adenosine receptor binding that causes the pituitary gland to trigger the adrenaline response ..if you're doing enough to support the adrenals, that's the only component left...but if the adrenals can't keep up (due to protein deficiency, lack of vitamin C, constant stress from wildly fluctuating blood sugar, lack of sleep, and hyperreactivity/overexertion from physically & psychologically stressful situations), then much of the time, you get nada..

so yeah, like ppl are saying, normalisation... wink.gif

please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe if you didn't have such a fear of degrading to a form resembling the common pleb (i know you're only half joking..but perhaps there's a serious issue there that you're worried about compromising your integrity?) ppl mightn't pick up on these (sometimes subconcious) cues, and head in the other direction at parties, etc

you're dissing them.

auxin, tell us something about manipura chakra.

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Originally posted by coin:

(i know you're only half joking..but perhaps there's a serious issue there that you're worried about compromising your integrity?)

Nah I am really joking. All the way. I couldn't give a rats arse if I'm normal or not, I haven't got time for comparisons smile.gif I was in fact trying to give youse an opportunity to take the piss wink.gif

ppl mightn't pick up on these (sometimes subconcious) cues, and head in the other direction at parties, etc

Depends which party smile.gif I live remotely and am fully habituated to my environment ( local, redneck, feral ) its only when I leave the Zone and attempt to socialise that I fully understand the vailidty of the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium in evolution smile.gif

Parties *here* are fine. Exceptional. I only go to other parties in case I'm missing out on something. I don't reckon I am smile.gif

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okeydoke..excellent hehe smile.gif

gotta look up that punkshated librum thing tho

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Originally posted by Darklight:

I've been doing fitness classes and eating better and getting healthier as I get older

If you've lost weight then the caffeine would have a smaller volume in which to act, hence you may be achieving higher blood concentrations with the same dose.

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Originally posted by Darklight:

Not a damn thing of late...oh hang on, started eating more vegetables, especially greens

cruciferous vegetables - green beans, brocolli can increase the clearance of caffeine, hence you would expect a decrease in effect. Maybe you've been eating lots of seaweed and all the iodine has got your thyroid cranking.

The clearance of caffeine and other xanthines is increased by smoking. Perhaps you quit as part of your fitness plan.

In women, caffeine metabolism varies with the menstrual cycle and is prolonged by taking oral contraceptives.

I constantly have to drink coffee to remind myself of why I don't like it.

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Recall with great reluctance a time not so long ago where we were happy in the self sufficency universe, producing such wonderous things as our own primo coffee beans. The beans watched with great excitement as they reached what we deemed to be "ripe". The hour had arrived, the picked beans had been dried, various roasting techniques employed, all that was left to do was to test of the fruits of our labour(pun weighed & fully intended). The first cup, smooth, nice overtones, the second cup (addiction had now claimed me) & the subsequent 4 cup a day habit that ensued(verybig cups). Began to feel not so right after the 3rd week, gastric pains, reflux, all the symptoms of stomach ulcers. Seems the beans were not happy & tried to escape through the lining of my stomach. Could not contain them bodily, it was freedom that they sought & with acidic reverie did they try to burn a hole through me.

Have bean scarred for life & can now only just bear to look the culprit in the growth axis!

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