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Mescaline/San Pedro Headaches

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About 85% of the time I use pachanoi or bridgesii syrup or mescaline extract I develop a substantial headache on the tail end - usually about 10-12 hours into the experience - this has happened the last several experiences in fact - I've heard this is not uncommon - has anyone here experienced it?

I'd like to hear some ideas about what causes it and how to prevent it..

Is it diet? Usually the trippin days I have only fruit throughout the day - no MAOI contraindicated stuff...

The headache is quite obnoxious actually, and it can be pretty strong, and feels like it's located deep in the center of my head...

No other psychedelic does that to me, and I'm not prone to headaches in general...

The last time it occured taking Naproxen and then Ibuprofin didn't knock it out entirely...

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I get similar after effect from strong Psilocybe experiences, still can't figure out what it could be, some people reckon blood sugar.

So far I have had some attacks so bad that I vomited until I was empty then several hours of dry retching.

The only thing that has effectively stopped the headache has been Anagraine (google!) which I believe is a serotonin 5-ht3 antagonist.

Hmm here is the link because google doesn't show it when you search Anagraine like I remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metoclopramide

Edited by apothecary

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Do you drink beer?

When younger I used to have similar issues and was left feeling quite fried after tripping until I stopped drinking beer in the last hours of the experience.

This is more commonly reported by people who fast or restrict their food intake than those that do not.

More study is needed so collecting data points is a great idea.

Yoghurt or cheese eaten with or at the end of pshrooms seems to be an issue with some people in this regards but not others.

We don't all share identical chemistry or responses to food or drugs so there is probably no model that will fit us all but its always worth comparing notes.

Edited by trout

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Nah I don't drink beer or any alcohol - am a bit of a health nut actually, I make most all my own meals and almost always whole foods, very little processed stuff (white rice, white flour, refined sugar), haven't eaten fast food in years, that sort of thing...

I also don't take any medications or any psychoactives regularily...

And I almost never consume caffeine in any form...

LOL, maybe all this is my problem actually - I quaff some pedro syrup and my system gets all bitchy on me...

The purified mescaline extracts do the same thing to me, so I'm wondering how pure these extracts really are - someone REALLY needs to do an NMR or GCMS or whatever on these extracts because 1. The doses people are taking are way higher than those reported in classical mescaline literature as appropriate doses for certain effects, and 2. The experience can often be more or less body oriented depending on the nature of the extract...

There could easily be some other alkaloid in there causing headaches and whatnot - and noone has really shown that mescaline is the only alkaloid that survives the A/B process...

*** Even with clear crystal shards I'm not convinced it's pure mescaline - back when I was into Methamphetamine I'd recrystallize "ice" looking meth that I knew was nowhere pure because I could snort 50mg of it and feel like I was on 10mg - well in Isopropyl alcohol this stuff would reform back into big clear chunks that were still way impure - but the crystal structure was homogenous ***

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Maybe try eating more food in small balanced amounts?

Edited by trucha

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Not a drinker really, can't recall ever drinking alcohol while tripping in excess of one beer.

Food maybe the issue although I often find the only way I can put anything in my mouth be it food or water when I'm tripping is to get high and let the munchies take over.

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for psilocybin its a great idea to have some b vitamines pryor to dose.

for mescaline id try the same, or maybe even on the tail end instead of pryor, tho ive never experienced a headache due to cacti.

after such travels ive found it best to also have some tryptophan or similar on hand for an after dose.

remember low or eratic serotinin lvls can cause cluster headaches even is your not prone to them.

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The purified mescaline extracts do the same thing to me, so I'm wondering how pure these extracts really are - someone REALLY needs to do an NMR or GCMS or whatever on these extracts because 1. The doses people are taking are way higher than those reported in classical mescaline literature as appropriate doses for certain effects, and 2. The experience can often be more or less body oriented depending on the nature of the extract...

If your talking dirty sanchez (brown) then who knows whats in it I wouldnt touch it, if its crystalline and white then its of reasonable purity. Even slightly off colour will be pure because the extinction coefficient on chlorophyll is so high you can have the slightest amount and everything looks green, or brown if its decomposed. Doses in litereature were 300mg-500mg initial yeah? Id say it starts at 400-500mg, maybe we are more hardcore?

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Right on, maybe I just need more vitamins...

Like I say though I don't get headaches on any other psychs - even DOC and DOB which are otherwise long and somewhat taxing..

The mescaline feels great during the first half of the experience too, feels very yummy and healing...

Does anyone from the USA know where to get Tryptophan? Is it preferable to 5-HTP?

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5-htp converts to melatonin. tryptophan converts to 5-htp and anything else it can if the brain needs it, the Vitamins B6(pyridoxine), B2(riboflavin) & B3(nicotinamide) helps with the metabolisim of naturally occuring tryptamines. personally i prefer tryptophan depending on availability.

if it doesnt help the headaches it will atleast balance the psychedelic centre of your brain.

there are also alot of other alkaloids in cacti, one of which is a CNS. there was a thread that mentioned them but i cannot find it.

EDIT for accuracy...

Edited by Amulte

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that's probably this thread Amulte, where we were discussing hordenine

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...mp;hl=hordenine

i reckon you could be right, hordenine or some other alk in the cacti could be responsible. would have thought that nitrogen would experience less headaches with pachanoi though ??

just came across this little bit of info

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/PrintablePage...75,4018,00.html

Barley seeds contain a chemical known as hordenine, which may stimulate parts of the nervous system. If hordenine is taken with prescription drugs that also cause nervous system stimulation, the risk of side effects such as anxiety, dizziness, fast heart beat, headache, insomnia, nausea, and restlessness may increase.

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I get them as well. One at the start before onset and then another at the end.

It's just something some people are prone too in regards to mescaline, some even get migraines.

I'd like to hear some ideas about what causes it and how to prevent it..

Aspirin.

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Maybe I am repeating myself too much? Please forgive me if so.

Has anyone anywhere ever isolated hordenine from a pachanoi or a bridgesii?

I know Agurell reported observing traces in gc-ms but that is all I can locate.

Has someone out there done more work?

I'd be happy to send good isolation, purification and identification approaches if anyone is interested in trying.

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I've heard of bad headaches on the tail end.Ibuprofen seemed to help

Edited by Osprey

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I' pretty sure it has something to do with Calcium deposition. Vitamin K2 supplements might help.

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K2 (menatetrenone) occurs naturally in the gut and intestine, unless one has badly damaged gut/intestine. the body stores it so no need for daily use, infact its not recommended for daily use. Vit-K antagonists, such as Warfarin and Meloxicam, will deplete Vit-K levels. nutritional Vit-K defecit is rare due to its abundance in green leafy vegatables, fruits, soybean and some dairy products. "2 TblSpn of Parsley contain more than the daily dose of Vit-K"

In humans its used for Blood, Bone and Vascular biology. problems with deficency include, but not limited to, gastro-instestinal bleeding, deformation in developing bones, and/or deposit of insoluble calcium on the arterial walls, known as "calcium deposition".

could be some mistakes in my above statment... couldnt find the book i read this from.

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i find they all tend to dehydrate you, for me 90% of the time, headaches have to do with muscle tension and dehydration.

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no idea if t is linked, but when i drank coffee i would get mad headaches during the day. usually something triggered it. even when i tripped i would get headache (although not drinking coffee at that specific time). a few months, maybe half year not sure, after i completely stopped drinking coffee (and other caffiene containing drinks like tea, coke etc) i have had very very few headaches...i can probably count them on one hand for the last 6 months.

just a thought. a lot of people i know get increased headaches when they drink caffiene...maybe there is a co-something?

i dont mean drinking it while you trip...i just mean if you are a coffee before work type person, as i was. 1-2 cups a day.

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I got a mad headache last time I tripped cactus.

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headaches are not an uncommon side effect, particularly from large doses.

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I'm not sure what causes the headaches,but it seems to be very common.

I really don't think a transient headache is that big of a trade off for the experiences to be had by comsuming cacti.

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Dude... it really hurts!

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Dude... it really hurts!

Yahporting

Better get on to the Surgeon General and let them know of the dangers of cactus consumtion.

I have heard that if you fall asleep at the tail end of the experience you wake up with hardly noticable negative effects, but I guess this is relative to what your idea of a hangover is.

Sleep is a really good and cheap (unless your doing it during work hours) cure-all.

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i believe the headaches are due to the vasodilatin properties of mescaline itself. funnily enough, i've only gotten headaches from lower, speedy doses. proper tripping doses leave me with a nice afterglow

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