Cannabis Legality

[celestariel]

Heya,

I was wondering if anyone had more information in their grasp than I can find.

I know in WA having 2 mully plants is decriminalised but is still illegal.

Likely punishment being $200 fine and a "drugs are bad course".

I was wandering about specification of that particular scenario.

Is being caught with 2 mully plants inside grown hydroponically, considered the same in a legal sense as 2 mully plants grown outside in the garden? And what would be the case if one person were to own more than one property?

Any ideas?

java script:add_smilie("","smid_18")

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Cheers.

[BlackDragon]

IN SA, my dealing with the plant patrol....

2 plants outside will be less of a probem. 1-2 plants inside(hyrdo) now in SA and they can/will charge you with production/manufacture of a drug, and they do. Outside you will only get a TIN notice(100 bucks), for 1 plant, but im sure if the cops arnt assholes you should get away with 2. Thats here tho, WA is much stricter tho isnt it?

When i was visited, the sargent said i could grow one outdoors for my med use, and its only a TIN fine, no record. He actually suggested that i do that next year(maybe hees keen to rip me off since he saw the quality of my indoors ) and i replied that i have kids in both nieghbouring yards, and they dont need to be exposed to that or risk someone jumping the fence. He said these were all good points and basically said the laws are crap and dont help med users at all.

The other point is, its not up to the cops to pass your punishment, its the judges job. If you treat the judge as a normal person, and just tell your story(other than you were growing for sales) small (1-3) plots will be delt with pretty lightly, providing you assist the cops when they get to your house. Notes from the DPP are helpful in building the scenario, dont piss em off or they will make it harder later...There are so many factors involved in the actual hearing, it really depends on how you handle the police and in turn how they view the bust...

If you search around you will find a 800 or 1000w proposition i have put out there, if this was seriously looked at, it could draw quite a nice neat line in the sand between smalltime/ med users and those wanting to cash in on our lovely lady.

-- were plants found on both properties?

-- If its not your house and they come a knockin, you have to say that the owner has NO IDEA that you are growing, or they will be charged also. even if you live wit the owner, dont implicate them at all.

BD.

[BlackDragon]

heres the snippet from the other cannabis legality thread...

BD

"Ive been thinking of a postive way to tackle some of the problems with the weed laws here in SA. Ive come up with a tangeable guidelines for personal outdoor and personal indoor cultivation.

Ok, here in SA, you can have: 1 plant outside no worries, $150 on the spot fine, if you pay it no problems.

You cannot have: ANY Indoors. Now if you get caught, with only 1 plant inside, its a court appearance, consequences and record.

Thats not fair, its the same one plant on your property, just a different location. Wheather it be inside or out, its still the same plant.

Now bear with me here, I can hear some saying.. but yeah, indoors hydro grows quicker, makes more money quicker... ra ra rah. It should be illegal. No it shouldnt. Not at all, infact, pot isnt the problem, cash and other drug swaps are the problem. I know that the cops are worried about huge ammounts of cash made from indoor growrooms here in SA, and thats why they made indoor growing illegal here now. No other reason.

If they are really after the big guys, fair enough, thats fine by me. I have a way to seperate us indoor "med/personal smokers/cultivators" from the average cash joe trying to make another 30k a year off pot he doesnt even smoke, let alone respect.

Ok, now onto governing indoor growing. Wattage is the ultimate governing factor regarding yeild, therefore potential yeilds can easily be controlled. Now weed is illegal cash for some, or heaven sent medication for others. By governing the allowance of wattage in the grow area, you can therefore govern the ammount of cannabis grown in that area.

I propose a 800-1200watt limit for personal indoor use/cultivation, anything over that and by all means take them to the cleaners. Comercial cultivation or whatever.

Indoor, 800-1200watts will yeild between 3/4 to 1 1/2 pound, every 12 week cycle. Depending on conditions, genetics etc. If you can squeeze more out the good on you! You will find there will be a threshold that will be reached, genetics will be the only governing factor then, and at around a pound every 12 weeks, thats about 1 and a bit ounces a week, more than enough for most med/personal users.

For some outdoor cultivation is not possible, but cultivation of natures gift indoors is. Why should these people be singled out as criminals? it just doesnt make sense. Thats what happens when people that make laws just dont fully understand the actual workings behind those laws. Ive seen SA go through all the major weed law changes, and this last change is just a joke.

I know my wattage governing idea will work, it has to, there is no other limiting factor. Ill cop a $150 on the spotter for under 1200 watts no worries, cop a criminal record, no thanks!! "

[celestariel]

heres the snippet from the other cannabis legality thread...

BD

"Ive been thinking of a postive way to tackle some of the problems with the weed laws here in SA. Ive come up with a tangeable guidelines for personal outdoor and personal indoor cultivation.

Ok, here in SA, you can have: 1 plant outside no worries, $150 on the spot fine, if you pay it no problems.

You cannot have: ANY Indoors. Now if you get caught, with only 1 plant inside, its a court appearance, consequences and record.

Thats not fair, its the same one plant on your property, just a different location. Wheather it be inside or out, its still the same plant.

Now bear with me here, I can hear some saying.. but yeah, indoors hydro grows quicker, makes more money quicker... ra ra rah. It should be illegal. No it shouldnt. Not at all, infact, pot isnt the problem, cash and other drug swaps are the problem. I know that the cops are worried about huge ammounts of cash made from indoor growrooms here in SA, and thats why they made indoor growing illegal here now. No other reason.

If they are really after the big guys, fair enough, thats fine by me. I have a way to seperate us indoor "med/personal smokers/cultivators" from the average cash joe trying to make another 30k a year off pot he doesnt even smoke, let alone respect.

Ok, now onto governing indoor growing. Wattage is the ultimate governing factor regarding yeild, therefore potential yeilds can easily be controlled. Now weed is illegal cash for some, or heaven sent medication for others. By governing the allowance of wattage in the grow area, you can therefore govern the ammount of cannabis grown in that area.

I propose a 800-1200watt limit for personal indoor use/cultivation, anything over that and by all means take them to the cleaners. Comercial cultivation or whatever.

Indoor, 800-1200watts will yeild between 3/4 to 1 1/2 pound, every 12 week cycle. Depending on conditions, genetics etc. If you can squeeze more out the good on you! You will find there will be a threshold that will be reached, genetics will be the only governing factor then, and at around a pound every 12 weeks, thats about 1 and a bit ounces a week, more than enough for most med/personal users.

For some outdoor cultivation is not possible, but cultivation of natures gift indoors is. Why should these people be singled out as criminals? it just doesnt make sense. Thats what happens when people that make laws just dont fully understand the actual workings behind those laws. Ive seen SA go through all the major weed law changes, and this last change is just a joke.

I know my wattage governing idea will work, it has to, there is no other limiting factor. Ill cop a $150 on the spotter for under 1200 watts no worries, cop a criminal record, no thanks!! "

Thats a really good concept.

But I would suspect that kind of liberalism would take a very long time to succeed in australia.

I couldnt imagine the goverment allowing people to grow but only in small quantities to prevent dealing and drug swapping.

But it's a great idea and very good compromise, between personal use and state restrictions on growing and dealing.

Thanks for all your feedback on that one matie.

[foolsbreath]

Indoor, 800-1200watts will yield between 3/4 to 1 1/2 pound, every 12 week cycle

Yeah, if you don't know what you are doing

A learned grower could get close to 3 pound off 1200 watts every 12 weeks which WILL net them 30,000 a year

It is accepted that 400watts is capable of producing 1 pound and reports of double that when using the sea of green method

That is why there is a limit on number of plants and that is why it is also illegal to grow hydro because a grower with unlimited resources and skill could easily outstrip your estimates

Wattage is only one of many factors affecting yield and by no means the ultimate. Other factors which can greatly affect yield are genetics, medium, nutrients/aditives, set up, habit, number of stems/ light, pot size, water quality, aeration, flushing, experience, temperature plus I'm sure many others.

Frankly I don't see why anyone would need more than a 1/4 oz a week for personal medicinal use. 1 well grown outdoor would produce that. Kudos to the SA govt for still allowing that.

[BlackDragon]

A learned grower could get close to 3 pound off 1200 watts every 12 weeks which WILL net them 30,000 a year

i forgot to add 2-3 plant maximum and ive been looking at 600-800w or 400-600w maximums. General yeild per kilowat is aroun 1:1 average i would like to see someone pull 3 lb off less than a thou..

It is accepted that 400watts is capable of producing 1 pound and reports of double that when using the sea of green method

Sea of green maybe, but i would like to see it otherwise traditional style. In 15 years of indoors, ive never seen anything close to that, mind you sog isnt big here in sa, never has been. Where is this 400w/lb number accepted?

That is why there is a limit on number of plants and that is why it is also illegal to grow hydro because a grower with unlimited resources and skill could easily outstrip your estimates

Ha, maybe, maybe not... I never mentioned any more than 1 plant in my inital statment also. Never mentioned SOG, numbers are way to high to even bother with it here... not in that much of a rush...

Wattage is only one of many factors affecting yield and by no means the ultimate. Other factors which can greatly affect yield are genetics, medium, nutrients/aditives, set up, habit, number of stems/ light, pot size, water quality, aeration, flushing, experience, temperature plus I'm sure many others.

The factors you have mentioned are all controlled(or not) buy non-measureable means(ie up to the individual grower), they dont help me where my strategy is going, they are end user controlled variants...I need to use controllable and measureable numbers... if anything, it will force people to learn more about sound botany/hort and create better yeilding high potency genetics, that cant be all that bad

The goal and hope is, most people will loose interest in small yeilding insignificant setups with 2 plants with limited wattage, unfortunatley we will never stop syndication tho... thats impossible.

Frankly I don't see why anyone would need more than a 1/4 oz a week for personal medicinal use.

7g? 1 gram/day? now dosage is different with everyone remember....

1 well grown outdoor would produce that.

If space and situation permitted yes, but thats not the case in suburbs these days...Not if you have nosey neighbours, kids either side, visiting parents etc... a odour controlled cupboard or small grow room is far safer for all parties involved sometimes.

Kudos to the SA govt for still allowing that.

They arnt as draconian as some, and the judges are quite reasonable when apporached in the right way

BD.

Edited July 10, 2007 by BlackDragon

[cisumevil]

"hey arnt as draconian as some, and the judges are quite reasonable when apporached in the right way "

Hope so as I have an appointment with one very soon!

[marsha]

a freind been growing some nice organic plants in soil under lights technically if in soil it aint hydroponics ;)

[cisumevil]

Yowie let your friend know that when I was busted late last year I was growing all my plants 100% organic in soil under lights and the Police in WA have charged me with "Growing a prohibited plant HYDROPONICALLY" If it's under a light it's Hydro, to me & you it's MADNESS but thats the way it is

[Evil Genius]

Cisumevil,

go to the barber and promise you wont do it again. Not sure but this could help Justin case. bye Eg

[reshroomED]

The problem is harvest-time.

While the legality of having one or two plants varies greatly from state to state, they're all pretty consistent on how they view someone with one or two pounds of buds.

I only just beat a trafficking charge just a few years back, in exactly this situation. Poor health and obvious lack of wealth were the only factors that got me off.

ed

[BlackDragon]

oh yeah, i had mine in coco- not really tchnically hydro, but whos going to argue the point(trust me, i would :D , i love talking to judges). When i have time that point will be taken up too, hydro is soiless system in its true essence. Legal terms should be used consitantly, but i spose that doesnt help when its not part of the charge listed, just manufacture is. "Hydro production or manufacture." isnt listed.

Ed id right about weight, fresh unharvested plants are just that, unharvested, no weight. If you trim them, as i told the sargents i was just about to do, they will then charge you with weight of pot, really, your only chance of getting really fucked hard is exactly at harvest/drying time with more than a few plants... The cops asked me if i had any more pot around, i produced a small 7g bud, and they were happy with that, didnt search further... My med reasons were more than convincing, so they were great about the removal and almost (in their own words) apologised for the disturbing me.

Cis, if your visiting officers were good to you, it will reflect in the DPP's statment, it helps alot, hence dont be wankers to the cops, it will only make it hard for you in court.

BD.

[foolsbreath]

i would like to see someone pull 3 lb off less than a thou..

Yeah that is not doable, that 1 lb per 400w is a maximum figure based on someone with unlimited resources who treats growing as a full time job and not a hobby, i.e. a professional dealer.

They would be using CO2, air con temperature control, flushing every day, running to waste, strong air movement and top shelf nutrients and additives etc

I dare say most people wouldn't have seen let alone invested in such set ups, but they are out there and that is why the legislation was changed and why wattage can't be used as a guide

Go down to a good hydro store and they will be able to tell you exactly what you need to obtain those figures but be prepared to spend thousands. Many seeds from well bred genetics are sold as being able to obtain over 500gms per square metre in Holland.

I never mentioned any more than 1 plant in my inital statment also. Never mentioned SOG, numbers are way to high to even bother with it here

You didn't actually mention any plant numbers in relation to your 800-1200 watt figures, which is is why I assumed that one could grow any number under your idea.

I spent 9 years in SA a while back when there was a 10 plant limit indoors and have seen such yields. I have also had friends robbed at gun point and even involved in murder as a result of growing pot

The goal and hope is, most people will loose interest in small yeilding insignificant setups with 2 plants with limited wattage, unfortunately we will never stop syndication tho... thats impossible.

I can see where you are coming from and I think a 1 plant limit with a 400watt limit is not a bad idea with limitations on CO2 use. I don't think anyone will be spending thousands on a set up to grow one plant. I also suppose there may be a safety issue with indoor growing that has prompted the move to outdoor. Anyone in Adelaide will remember the odd house fire due to poorly set up grow rooms

But fact is anyone who is growing for profit will continue to do so regardless of the law, The new legislation will just stop them falling through the cracks in the legal system that previously allowed professional dealers to do so

[BlackDragon]

I spent 9 years in SA a while back when there was a 10 plant limit indoors and have seen such yields.

Yea, i dont doubt that, ive seen it too, but not with 1-2 plants under restricted wattage.. Ive seen 10+ planst under 20,000w, but that doesnt mean much... thats the exact thing im looking at raising the punishment for... not small time grower/users.

Go down to a good hydro store and they will be able to tell you exactly what you need to obtain those figures

Ha :D gee you put alot of trust in them it seems.. hard to find good service at hydro stores let alone good info, bikie fronts arent usually the most value infomation sources...

I have also had friends robbed at gun point and even involved in murder as a result of growing pot

Its not the plants fault, its your friends. Loose lips sink tight ships remember... Dont blame the weed man, thats a cop out. No one would come rippin off a small setup, and then, they have to know who, where and when..

What would happen in the same situation if these plants were outside?

Anyone in Adelaide will remember the odd house fire due to poorly set up grow rooms

Ha sucked in to them, use a sparkie if you dont know what your doing, fires can be prevented if you use your noggin, again, greedy people bypassing ELP's or saftey switches and stealing the mains.... Just like all factets of life, your going to have the occasional dickhead somewhere.. Just like all cars dont catch on fire, Some can on occasions. For the ammount of growrooms in SA, the fire threat is very minimal. Two years ago, it was estimate 1 in 4 houses were growing pot.

I dare say most people wouldn't have seen let alone invested in such set ups, but they are out there and that is why the legislation was changed and why wattage can't be used as a guide

Im sure some people have seen top end setups, and cant afford them or its way too much for them, hence, they wont use them and will opt for less yeilding measures..

Yet again, with a 400 or 600w max, will these big end guys actually fuck around that much for the yeild of a 600w system? The answer is no as you mentioned, they will still do their mult wattage, multi plant, multi stage, bypassing electricity setups. Like i said, we aint goin to stop them.

I specifically am looking at a line in the sand effect here, no "but this - but that".. mimimum plants and minimum wattage = minimum plant outdoor essentially, thats what im looking at... superior genetics and environments control is far from most people reach and budgets(most, not all)

Its great to see my idea taking some shape and the input given is always needed when beginin an idea like this.

Pot laws should at least be looked at and scrutinised by real pot heads, and then present the proposal in a unified front of gathered real world info, not an ill informed decision made by someone soo far removed from the pot scene its not funny...

I know im batlling goliath here, but it all has to start somewhere...

Bd.

Edited July 11, 2007 by BlackDragon

[Torsten]

I don't understand the difference bwteen spending $1000 on a grow kit and spending $1000 on 4 ounces of pot. If you are going to accept that there is medical use then it is not right to accept that the plant is illegal. We need to push for medical pot laws like they have in the more enlightenen USA states and in parts of europe. Everything else is hypocrisy that plays by their rules. By endorsing these limits you are endorsing the governments unfair limitations.

and I don't even like pot....

[SunChaser]

I have no idea how people can sit around in silence, while states like NSW make penalties for growing cannabis indoors more severe than growing outdoors. When there is not one single credible study to suggest that growing cannabis indoors is consistently more potent.

A law based on propaganda, fear and ignorance!

It doesn’t matter how much people hate it, because it has been proven to have medical value. Its high abuse rate could easily be argued since resent Australian studies have shown alcohol to have a higher abuse rate.

So why is cannabis a class A drug, when it doesn’t even fit the criteria??

[Ace]

So why is cannabis a class A drug, when it doesn’t even fit the criteria??

Do yourself a favour and watch a documentary by the name of Grass. That will explain it all ;)

Legalise.

[SaBReT00tH]

I seriously can't imagine most cops even in SA considering an indoor grown Dope plant as outdoor. I would've thought the legislature would describe a hydroponic plant as any dope plant growing inside and/or under lights, not just a plant not growing in soil. Cops jobs aren't to be moral and decide what's right or wrong, their job is the executive enforcer and to apply/prosecute people under the legislature law. Most cops don't give a crap if you need it for medicinal purposes. I'm sure most pot smokers DO use that reason when they get busted and the cops are used to that.

Just wondering too, in SA with the expiation notice for 1 outdoor plant, do you get a criminal conviction or become 'charged with an offence?' and can't enter countries like the US, or join the police force/army?

[cisumevil]

http://blogs.smh.com.au/newsblog/arc...ht/014551.html

Politicians nowadays are constantly being asked whether they've used marijuana. Anyone who wants to enter politics needs a good answer to the question, and as baby boomers continue to take over our parliaments, the answers keep on becoming more interesting. The so-called baby boomer president, Bill Clinton, famously offered that "I didn't inhale" excuse, which formed the basis of many a late-night comedy routine, and provided a taste of the amusingly technical justifications to come as the president denied having "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinsky. This week, it was a joke by Daniel Johns that set the pot among the pigeons. He made a quip on radio about lying on a bed with Bono and Peter Garrett, listening to the new Silverchair album and smoking a joint. Well, on this evidence, Daniel Johns really should stick to being an ultra-serious young rock-auteur, because jokes aren't this thing. I'd be surprised if Johns had come up with a single funny thing since he wrote the lyrics to Tomorrow.

The problem with the joke is that it's far too plausible. Johns was listening to his album with Bono and Garrett earlier in the year, it was only the joint part that was made up. Whereas if I made a joke about the time I was lying on a bed with Robert Manne and John Ralston Saul, discussing my smh.com.au blog while smoking crack, that would be implausible enough to be clearly a joke. (Although, Rob and John, if you're interested, let me know and we'll meet up. BYO crack pipe.)

The joke he was aiming at was based around Bono and Garrett being supposedly anti-drug, so of course one wouldn't share a spliff with them. But they're still rock stars. And, as we saw with the controversy over Madonna's involvement with Live Earth, celebrities aren't necessarily hypocrisy-free. Bono's an anti-poverty campaigner who's immensely wealthy, so really, who'd be shocked if be if enjoyed the occasional toke while regularly lecturing the UN on the evils of drugs?

Garrett's involvement, and subsequent denial, led to every other politician trotting out their own personal drug-use stories. And gee, who'd have thought that Kevin Rudd never would have indulged in marijuana? It's about as likely as him being seen in public with a hair out of place. The guy's level of self-control is genuinely terrifying, so I can't imagine Rudd consuming any substance that would lead to relaxation. Even though Rudd's obviously doing a much better job, I can't help but long for the amusing indiscipline of Mark Latham.

Being equally straight-laced, Howard doesn't use drugs, of course. But imagine my surprise when Nick Minchin confessed to having indulged in the odd spot of whacky baccy in his youth. I'm sorry, Nick Minchin? The ultra-conservative guy who doesn't believe in compulsory voting or global warming? This is honestly the first time I've heard anything vaguely humanising about the former Special Minister of State, a title that made him seem like the Canberra equivalent of Darth Vader. If even a guy like Minchin indulged a little in his youth, surely nearly all of our pollies must have.

Which got me wondering. In a decade's time, when an even younger generation of politicians has swept onto Capitol Hill, will there be any politicians left who didn't experiment with marijuana in their youths? (Well, with the exception of Alex Hawke.) And that really ought to beg a few questions. A criminal conviction is enough to disqualify you from parliament, so a situation where the majority of our lawmakers have broken a law is a serious situation - even if marijuana is decriminalised for personal use, it's still a big concern. But more to the point, if in their private lives, virtually everyone in parliament has chosen to disregard a certain law, shouldn't we reconsider whether that law ought to exist at all?

Sure, every pollie who admits to a little dope smoking is quick to reiterate that they wouldn't dream of it now, but I think that's a bit disingenuous. At the time, when they didn't have public perception to worry about, they obviously didn't think it was a problem, and surely beneath the layers of spin, that's still their position. The fact is that a little experimentation with marijuana is normal in our society, and we should stop being hysterical about it. For the most part, people try it, perhaps even use it regularly for a year or two, and then give it away and get on with their lives with no adverse effects.

Which is not to condone its use. Marijuana can have a terrible psychological impact on some people, and I'm aware of situations where it was linked to panic attacks and even schizophrenia. But we've also all seen alcohol destroy people's lives, and smoking's more destructive still. So I really don't understand why marijuana is in a different category. And when they made the decision to smoke at whatever university party it may have been, our politicians obviously felt the same way.

And that's why no one got Daniel Johns' joke. When three rock legends gather, even ones as strait-laced as Garrett and Bono, no-one would necessarily assume it would be a drug-free event. Sure, I might have doubted the story if Johns had said that he and Bono snorted lines of heroin off the top of Garrett's head, or something. But passing around a joint while lying around and listening to a rock album is a common occurrence in our society. So it will be fascinating to see whether our politicians are willing to back up in their public capacities the judgements they've obviously made in their private lives.

Posted by Dom Knight

July 15, 2007 9:00 AM

[SunChaser]

So why is cannabis a class A drug, when it doesn’t even fit the criteria??

Do yourself a favour and watch a documentary by the name of Grass. That will explain it all ;)

Legalise.

Sorry about that, I didn’t mean it as a question.

But on that, although I love watching grass every ones in a while for fun. It in know way answers the questions to why cannabis (or drugs) are still illegal all over the world today, even though drug prohibition has been a total failure from the start.

Also grass has a lot of propaganda in it (all for cannabis), so be careful when you show someone that movie as a argument to why cannabis should be legal.

The doco you want to watch if your really interested in knowing why Americas failed drug policy is still going strong all over the world is this

War on Drugs - Prison Industrial Complex in USA

This is the most informative doco I've ever seen on this issue, and I think I've seen most of them.

Seriously if you have any sort of interest on this issue you’d want to see this one, its a blood boiler

[Ace]

Totally agree with you there Jabez

Also grass has a lot of propaganda in it (all for cannabis)

This is going to sound rather nieve, but do you mind pointing out some of the errors in the film? I know it is heavily swayed in the 'legalise' direction, but it is very hard (for me at least) to spot any real flaws. Mind you, I've only seen it once or twice now

War on Drugs - Prison Industrial Complex in USA, the most informative doco I've ever seen on this issue

I haven't heard of it, but it sounds like it'd be right up my alley Hmm, its way to big for me to d/load - would someone happen to have a copy of it (a burnt cd/dvd, etc)? I could reward them with a nice chunk of cactus or something?

Cisumevil: That was a great blog mate - it certainly does give you the shts to hear about pollies and the popular culture getting away with breaking the law in their youth, but totally denying that they'd ever do it in adulthood... And the scary thing is that most of these hypocritical bastards are the ones making the absurd rules... It does infuriate ya doesnt it??

Edit: typo - blog should have a 'g' in it

Edited July 17, 2007 by Ace

[Auntyjack]

I don't understand the difference bwteen spending $1000 on a grow kit and spending $1000 on 4 ounces of pot.

....becauce the next 4 ounces won't cost you $1000?

AJ

[SunChaser]

Totally agree with you there Jabez

Also grass has a lot of propaganda in it (all for cannabis)

This is going to sound rather nieve, but do you mind pointing out some of the errors in the film? I know it is heavily swayed in the 'legalise' direction, but it is very hard (for me at least) to spot any real flaws. Mind you, I've only seen it once or twice now

The one main thing grass does is use clips from drug propaganda films that are about other drugs and then give the impression there talking about cannabis.

The other thing they do is use studies and purposely leave out information that would make cannabis look anything but perfect, just little things like that. This is probably one of the reasons grass is one of my favourite entertaining movies, but it really annoys me they went down to the governments level when it would have been just as good if they said it straight.

The War on Drugs - Prison Industrial Complex in USA is about just that the US has the highest imprisonment rates in the world, which is turning the US prison system in to a industrial complex (guaranteed growth industry). This has all been fuelled by Gorge bush senior when he came up with the brilliant idea to rob the drug dears of there customers.

It also goes in to how the DEA is 100% self funded, for example if my mate drove his care to purchase say a gram of weed and got caught by the DEA, that car and all funds now belongs to the DEA.

Just the tip of the ice burg, but they also explain how the US intimidated Australia in to not going though with the medical heroin trial that was suppose to happen.

[stonewolf]

....becauce the next 4 ounces won't cost you $1000?

AJ

people pay 1k for a QP? now I've removed myself from the scene of late, and large amount for a long time, but this time last year a QP of outdoor hydro could be purchased for $500. Thats SEQ, I've heard far north Queensland has so much of the stuff that $100 an ounce for some really well grown stuff is common place. Is indoor hydro really worth that much more? Do you get completely ripped off a quarter packed cone or some such?