Importing Kava to Oz

[devance]

If the Kava was liked with the Fijians for thousands of years without liver damage theres another problem.

Kava not a good trank.

Maybe more a cultural drug.

[Torsten]

the liver problem has been linked ONLY to pharmaceutical kava products/extracts, NEVER to natural kava preparations. It has also never been linked to kava products that were guaranteed to not contain any aerial parts. There is another 2 or 3 threads on this topic outlining that basically during the kava marketing peak there was not enough kava, so the pharma giants bought aerial parts after realising these also contained lactones. They did not test for toxic components though, which were later found ONLY IN THE AERIAL PARTS by a team at Hawaii University. These toxic components are liver toxic alkaloids.

[Vertmorpheus]

all kind of interesting, given I've heard a few times from vageuly reliable sources that the higher up the plant you get , the "higher grade" you get..maybe its a bit like the classic schnapps, gives a nicer feeling and taste but is not designed to ..go all the way on... due to the various freaky fusels hanging around in it. Or something. I just get basic root, and my liver seems ok.. a lot of chronic kava users tend to end up with shitty diets, a lot od dehydration, constipation, excessively sedentary lifestyle, and not to mention knocking off a 6 pack with every couple bowls of the stuff. there is a good report floating around online of the effects of kava on northern territory indigenous communities... seems it wasn't the answer to the prayers it was meant to be. "the kava bowl" or something like that, from memory. Why I won't post to NT, enough problems up there already.

I'd say kava makes a fine trank, but more of a hypnotic than a narco style sedative, you have some choice... if the situation demands attentiveness, you can bring it to bear, but if not a lot is going on, and youve had a bit, its hard not to end up snoozing for an hour on the lounge.. might just be me though. Certainly more of a sleeper than the various valerian/hops/trypto combos sold by the handful at your local chemist. But the social/cultural aspect is very strong, the stuff is perfect for kicking back and having a chinwag with, seems to up my conscious empathy and openness quite a bit.

Defence on all sides has been handing out dex since ww2 (less you were german/japanese, then it was meth).and also turns a nicely blind eye to troops getting ripped off vast amounts of instant coffee granules, eaten straight from the pack, phentermine, duromine, dex, ritalin, and various ephedra products, Ripped Fuel ranks high among them... find a book called Generation Kill, if you want a worrying read... has a lot to say about the...dietary intake.. of US marine forces in the middle east. Another biggy is Dip, this sharply cut tobacco snuff stuff, my bro doesn't smoke and never has but had a taster in hawaii on an exchange so as not to offend... spent the next two hours on his back on the beach spinning out pretty bad, quite a big lump of a bloke he is too.Apparently has glass or somesuch added to it so it cuts up the inside of your lip, sounds fun eh? Phenylephrine cough mixes come into it a bit too... anything to keep you driving thru the night.

The navy used to be pretty cool about letting sailors huff all the o2 they want to brighten up the evening a bit too.

kavaman sounds like a dog... just look for your local pacific grocery store and ask there.. the stuff is hardly in short supply, just quiet supply. Must be nice though, to wake up everyday knowing you've ripped off a large amount of decent people of their hard earned... what a champion.

or just join the army? haha.

VM

[Mr Griffin...]

I think John Fordham deserves to be in on this discussion. I am in no way affiliated with him, or his business but after expressing my concerns when placing an order, he wished for these words to be shown in reply to some of the comments.

I'll be sure to let you all know how my order progresses but so far, the customer service and price have been excellent and I have no complaints.

"Dear Forum readers

I was extremely disappointed to be advised that Klin Kava had been linked to

"Kavaman". My name is John Fordham, owner of klinkava.com and its products.

I have to question anyone's (Sharman) motivation or lack of integrity in

accusing someone, such as myself, of being involved in scrupulous kava

dealings or any other dealings before they do any investigations to

substantiate their allegations made on electronic media for everyone to see.

A simple click on my "contact" icon and an email to me would have been a

simple act to follow to find out if I was the "Kavaman".

I have a kava processing plant in Luganville, Santo Island in Vanuatu. Over

the years I have witnessed poor quality products leave Vanuatu and Fiji to

end up in Countries such as Noumea, Australia, USA and New Zealand. These

products can smell(bacteria), contain contaminants such as "false Kava"

"Stem Peelings", "Stems" "Flour" etc. Kava is a great product that's been

denigrated through "shonky" operators, inferior products, quality control

issues and unsupported so called "scientific findings" and large mark-ups on

wholesale prices. I continue to find markets, and operators that have been

devastated by kava dealers such as the ones that I have been accused of

being.

I will back my, products, service and prices. I have endeavoured to bring

high quality products to the consumer at a fair price. My products will

continue to improve over time as feed back from consumers helps in this

regard. I have been operating my business since September 2006 after 2 years

of research and development of my products. My web page has been activated

for two weeks in Australia. I have no negative feed back but numerous

positive emails appreciating the quality and timeliness of my service.

My products are shipped from inside Australia from Brisbane.

What happened to "Fair Go" policy of Australians and the "innocent until

proved guilty" verdict.

By the way, the limit of kava to bring into Australia is 2kg and not 2.9 as

suggested in a forum response.

John Fordham

[email protected]"

[Guest Øskorei]

Whilst we all need to be vigilant in exposing dodgy suppliers, an element of care must be taken before making such suggestive comments that negativly affect the livelihood of others. There's some pretty strong statements that elude to this business's association with this kavaman chap, and so far the response from the dude is that there's no relation.

If I didn't have my own bulk Kava 'dealer' here in Sydney, I'd definatly give my business to this supplier. Cheap too. Do the math. 1kg of kava from klin is $35 -or 3 and a half cents a gram. 75 grams of Kava from SAB is $15, or 20 cents per gram. (Note, this price comparison is FACT, not speculative hyperbole)

Edited June 16, 2007 by Øskorei

[dqd]

...I'll be sure to let you all know how my order progresses but so far, the customer service and price have been excellent and I have no complaints.

Same, and will judge on product. This doesn't sound like James; he wouldn't even bother saying anything, he'd just leave you for dead. However it may be an idea to not use the 'kavaman' moniker as there are bad things associated with it... I personally ended up $150 out of pocket with no product or reply - doesn't sound much but it is to me. Maybe we could run a comp to think up a name with no bad connotations?

I too will report on the first bowl...

[Vertmorpheus]

All very good points, income in income and most of us have to fuck someone over somewhere along the line, even if it's "out of ourhands" or "market forces" at play... never the less, at the bottom of klins mainpage is also to be found...

" Kava in Australia

Written by Kavaman

Monday, 09 August 2004"

perhaps a different kavaman..but then if JF is that concerned about dodgy suppliers , ya think he might've picked up the negative vibe attached here in Aus to the name "kavaman"... or maybe not. But that being right there in black n white makes this "I was extremely disappointed to be advised that Klin Kava had been linked to "Kavaman" sound just a bit silly? If the site was totally run by someone other than JF, and he had no idea of content (unlikely to start with) I am fairly sure that they would have a generic "thankyou for your concerns, however, we assure our customers that every effort is made to..."... rather than something written in the first person denying what is there for all to read.

I also wonder how they can dry, shred, grind, wet, strain, in a tropical area without positive pressure facilities (unlikely) and claim that it is free of bacteria etc... unless they are irradiating, gassing, otherwise scaring the bejesus out of the product to kill any beastes introduced during what sounds like a fairly intensive way of giving your product a massive surface area and ideal conditions to get innoculated with something or other.

My real concern in all this is that the growers, pickers, packers, transporters, must be getting bent over pretty bad if a kilo of a grown, harvested, processed product, with aqis / customs fees n all that, can still be had for 50 or 100 bucks if you have a hunt around. I don't like the idea of someone getting screwed and backbroken for my legal good times here in my country. Pity no local growers as far as I can find anyway.

A good deal is only a good deal if the product you ordered shows up, when all's said n done.

VM

[dqd]

Was under another name on the aussie site before it was removed, not 'kavaman'... last I saw before ordering was no 'kavaman' in sight. If I had paid my first visit to the .com version instead and seen the 'kavaman' name I would most likely have not placed an order.

It'll work out one way or t'other

[Mr Griffin...]

Some more words from John (as he is unable to post on this forum until membership is approved):

"I just read the responses to my posting you put in for me. Thankyou.

Unfortunately the website designer put the name kavaman on the site. I had

not tied kavaman and James together until I had received your email quoting

what Sharman had written. There are lots of people in this industry that

call themselves kavaman, kavawomen, kavaking etc, hundreds actually.

Once I read Sharmans statement, I was able to tie the two together

immediately.

Mr Vertmorpheous seems to be of the opinion every body should know James as

"Kavaman". Unfortunately they don't. I certainly didn't. As far as I know,

James is still up to his tricks despite complaints from overseas dealers

being made to the VCMB in Vanuatu about the antics of this character.

klinkava.com.au will not be re-listed as is, and only klinkava.com will be

used due to a written notification to my storeman (not a shipping container)

in Brisbane with regard to advertising Kava on the net.

Klinkava.com.au was not de-listed for any other reason other than to comply with the law.

I can understand everyone's nervousness about kava dealers, I have been

taken three times in the last 60 days. Not large amounts of money involved,

but enough to make me a little shy. So while I don't like Mr Vertmorpheous

comments, I can understand his scepticism."

Some words by one of his references to further clear his name:

"John has been stressing out about this. He is a very

honorable man and pretty religious and he takes his name very seriously.

Don't worry your kava will arrive. If it doesn't contact me and I will take

care of it. There are many dishonest people in the kava business and your

concern is not without cause. I have been burned by these people for almost

$10,000 US so I know them well. Please spread the word that Klin Kava is a

legitimate business and not related to the criminals in Vanuatu. I am sure

you will like the kava. Here is a website I built to acknowledge a criminal

that got me good on a kava deal http://www.basilhopkinsisathief.com/ He runs

with the boys in Vila that will blind your eyes and steal your dreams. I

would make a site about James but he was not foolish enough to steal from

me. But I know many people that cannot say that.

Thanks again for giving John a shot. He really is working hard to supply the

AU market.

Regards,

Jeffrey A. Bowman, M.B.A, Eng.

CEO & Co-Founder

South Pacific Elixir Company, Inc.

Boca Raton, Florida"

As you can see, John's stressing out about this. I think we should support him and his business on this forum after all this...

[Vertmorpheus]

So he let someone list themselves as a legit distributor using the name James NOT knowing he was kavaman, but then let him list AS kavaman on the site? Confused fuckin hippy here<

""I just read the responses to my posting you put in for me. Thankyou.

Unfortunately the website designer put the name kavaman on the site. I had

not tied kavaman and James together until I had received your email quoting

what Sharman had written. There are lots of people in this industry that

call themselves kavaman, kavawomen, kavaking etc, hundreds actually.

Once I read Sharmans statement, I was able to tie the two together

immediately.

Mr Vertmorpheous seems to be of the opinion every body should know James as

"Kavaman". Unfortunately they don't. I certainly didn't. As far as I know,

James is still up to his tricks despite complaints from overseas dealers

being made to the VCMB in Vanuatu about the antics of this character."

So.... he hadn't tied K and J together until being told so, blardy blar... but then says he didn't know James WAS kavaman... only to then say that "James is still up to his old tricks despite complaints..." is he saying that he let someone list on his site and distribute his product, SOLE distribution, only by using the name "kavaman" in his dealings with him (web design aside, that smells).. and didn't know that kavaman was a dog... OR... only dealt with him as James Whoever, never realised he was kavaman, but goes on to say that James is still dogging people despite customer complaints... whaaaat has this guy been drinking? the mainpage says the site is done by "team klin"... SOMEHOW I think the kava big wig might maybe just take a peek at the final product... or maybe his "web master" has stuffed him around, in which case I'd feel better hearing he was planning to sack the bastard on Monday.

If it smells like bullshit, and reads like bullshit, then it probably isn't pot pourri... and a good referee would NEVER think of saying "well if he does dog you, let me know, and I'll sort it"... buh? what? Not something I'd put on my resume anyway.

Proofs in the pudding, those that have ordered and recieved (more than once ) can tell us how it went, if it does.

VM

[Guest Øskorei]

This is all getting pretty ugly. Why destroy someone's reputation without any evidence to date.

Of course if this guy does end up shonky, then three cheers to those who can smugly say "I toldja so" But until then give the poor guy a break. The prices are good, the shipping is cheap, and many people interested in trying Kava now have an opportunity to get a great deal from the site. If he fucks up, so be it, we'll hammer the sucker, but until such a time that this happens, we should ease up on the speculation.

[Torsten]

whooops! Kavaman has pulled the wool over our eyes a few times before, so I am not immediately apologising etc, but at this point I will retract all statement and will go and edit my post.

The last thing we want to do is to hurt an honest kava supplier in australia [or anywhere] as that will only help scumbags like kavaman/James & co.

I will immediately approve forum access for John. I'd also like to have a private chat with John, so if you could PM me or email me that would be great. I'd really like to get more information on all this before I go editing this thread. If we have done any damage to your business we will certainly try and rectify this and make up for it.

[Torsten]

Do the math. 1kg of kava from klin is $35 -or 3 and a half cents a gram. 75 grams of Kava from SAB is $15, or 20 cents per gram. (Note, this price comparison is FACT, not speculative hyperbole) [/color]

There are some product we don't really want to supply, but we do because some people simply don't have other source options. I can only ever get kava when I go to sydney and then I can only get whatever is in stock there. I pay $60 for the grade I want and with all that fucking around and labour for packaging etc, it's not even worth it for us to sell kava even at the price we charge.

There are kava sources posted here all the time and i encourage that as I can never buy enough of it anyway. In fact, if Klin kava checks out then I hope he'll make his own promotional post here.

[Torsten]

looks like kavaman is still up to his old tricks:

http://forum.everyonedoesit.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85847

still waiting to hear back from some friends in Vanuatu, but it looks like we/I have done klinkava a great injustice and John deserves my full apology! There is absolutely nothing linking him and his business to kavaman/james except John's poor choice of nickname. Please let me know if there is anything else in this thread that needs to be corrected.

[Guest Øskorei]

I'm glad this is being redressed. To further rectify any negative impact on this guys business, it would be nice to see some positive feedback on succesful delivery from those who have ordered. I wish Mr John every success as an Australian distributor, and hope that this country's only serious ethnobotanical site and it's members support him if he's supplying good, potent product. Shoot, the price is pretty fantastic, so that's already a plus.

BUT if he turns out to be a shonk (which i am not speculating), then I'll personally head up the wild-hunt posse to kick his arse. Kava & deception should never go hand in hand.

Anyone visit that link of Torsten's about that kavaman/James noodle ? How fucking ignorant (but quite funny), many of the posters are even questioning the validity of a country called Vanuatu. Damn stoners can't find the keys to dial up google. But yea, it seems that this dickhead is still jerking people around. For the life of me, I cannot understand why he hasn't fallen prey to a 'personality adjustment' from some of the victims. There's clearly a trend of continuing wilful deception, and I'm certain that this trait extends beyond that of dodgy ethno salesmen like Kavaman or that cactus dude in Melbourne

Edited June 16, 2007 by Øskorei

[Guest Øskorei]

EDIT: TRIPLE post. Sorry. WTF is wrong with me

Edited June 16, 2007 by Øskorei

[Klin Kava]

So he let someone list themselves as a legit distributor using the name James NOT knowing he was kavaman, but then let him list AS kavaman on the site? Confused fuckin hippy here<

""I just read the responses to my posting you put in for me. Thankyou.

Unfortunately the website designer put the name kavaman on the site. I had

not tied kavaman and James together until I had received your email quoting

what Sharman had written. There are lots of people in this industry that

call themselves kavaman, kavawomen, kavaking etc, hundreds actually.

Once I read Sharmans statement, I was able to tie the two together

immediately.

Mr Vertmorpheous seems to be of the opinion every body should know James as

"Kavaman". Unfortunately they don't. I certainly didn't. As far as I know,

James is still up to his tricks despite complaints from overseas dealers

being made to the VCMB in Vanuatu about the antics of this character."

So.... he hadn't tied K and J together until being told so, blardy blar... but then says he didn't know James WAS kavaman... only to then say that "James is still up to his old tricks despite complaints..." is he saying that he let someone list on his site and distribute his product, SOLE distribution, only by using the name "kavaman" in his dealings with him (web design aside, that smells).. and didn't know that kavaman was a dog... OR... only dealt with him as James Whoever, never realised he was kavaman, but goes on to say that James is still dogging people despite customer complaints... whaaaat has this guy been drinking? the mainpage says the site is done by "team klin"... SOMEHOW I think the kava big wig might maybe just take a peek at the final product... or maybe his "web master" has stuffed him around, in which case I'd feel better hearing he was planning to sack the bastard on Monday.

If it smells like bullshit, and reads like bullshit, then it probably isn't pot pourri... and a good referee would NEVER think of saying "well if he does dog you, let me know, and I'll sort it"... buh? what? Not something I'd put on my resume anyway.

Proofs in the pudding, those that have ordered and recieved (more than once ) can tell us how it went, if it does.

VM

I think this fellow "Vertmorheous" should just drink kava and leave the other stuff he is now on, alone. Post me your address and I'll sent you some free kava, the kave you are on is not working.

[Guest Øskorei]

LMAO ! Great first post, never a more true word spoken. Welcome aboard John. please send him a double-concentrate dose

[Klin Kava]

looks like kavaman is still up to his old tricks:

http://forum.everyonedoesit.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85847

still waiting to hear back from some friends in Vanuatu, but it looks like we/I have done klinkava a great injustice and John deserves my full apology! There is absolutely nothing linking him and his business to kavaman/james except John's poor choice of nickname. Please let me know if there is anything else in this thread that needs to be corrected.

Appology accepted!

John Fordham

[Klin Kava]

the liver problem has been linked ONLY to pharmaceutical kava products/extracts, NEVER to natural kava preparations. It has also never been linked to kava products that were guaranteed to not contain any aerial parts. There is another 2 or 3 threads on this topic outlining that basically during the kava marketing peak there was not enough kava, so the pharma giants bought aerial parts after realising these also contained lactones. They did not test for toxic components though, which were later found ONLY IN THE AERIAL PARTS by a team at Hawaii University. These toxic components are liver toxic alkaloids.

An interesting subject, one that needs a lot more attention at grass roots level. Infact these Phamacuetical Coys actually bought the peelings of the arterial parts as well, which have extremely high lactone content and an alkaloid called pipermethystine. This alkaloid is not found in the roots or basal stump which are the kava parts traditionally used. While I'm not a food scientist, I have read a little about it. Last year I was in a village on Santo Island where I was asked if I wanted to buy peelings. I asked why he had peeled and dried the peelings in the first place? He said there was a market for them in Fiji and Australia. Luckily I had the Chairman of the Vanuatu Grass Roots association (Karlo Kalran)with me who immediately tore strips off him in their native language. He explained to the Village fellow and the crowd that was gathering, that he would distroy the worlds kava market if he exported this product.

There was an attempt to find the buyer's name but no one wanted to disclose it. Shortly after this a shipment of kava was confiscated going to Fiji belonging to a buyer without a licence. Its a little more complicated than that but that's the basics.

This was an isolated incident but it shows that there are buyers out there that don't give a dame about the consequences, a little like our drug traffickers.

Anyway, back to the initial topic. When the basal stump is not peeled before slicing and drying, we are faced with the same scenerio with the pipermethystine (liver toxic alkaloids).

Another problem is with kava extracts, other than by cold (<35 degreesC) water extraction, such as alcohol extraction, delivers a product different from that consumed for centuries in the South Pacific. There are no confirmed negative reports that support that kava, extracted correctly, has any adverse affect on liver, kidneys etc. In fact there are a lot of positive reports including that reported on this site http://www.pacificislands.cc/pina/pinadefa...urlpinaid=20290

I know that a lot of dried kava has not been peeled before shipment to USA, Fiji, NZ, Australia etc. I contribute this to the problems found with Aboriginees up north that can consume large amounts often.

I have made it a policy at my factory now that I do not buy any unpeeled kava anymore. I have even started processing my own dry Kava so that I can quarantee genotype and that peelings are not included. This will be available in July and will be called Five (5) Star Kava. I will be sending a sample batch to Aussie in the next weeks shipment to test the market sentiment. Its not cheap so there will be market rejection at $15-00 for 200grams. We'll see.

The other problem to do on this subject is that "false kava" was being mixed with the real stuff (back before the ban in Europe). I'm aware it's still happenning but very isolated and usually associated with particular buyers. This is not a big issue now because all kava is exported by licenced exporters and most want to protect their relationships with the buyers. These exporters are able to easily identify these contaminating items and disgard them.

Like any substance, consumed in great volumes kava will have adverse affects. the beauty about kava is that it is proven to be absolutely non-addictive and infact there are recorded documented studies to show that it is reverse addictive. The addictive part about kava is the state of mind it leaves you with and the companionship while consuming it.

[Vertmorpheus]

Yep go for it...though I'd rather you tack it onto another members orders and they can forward it to me, as I'm not real big on anyone that responds to fairly logical questions from potential customers with insults or condescension, or accusation of drug abuse and/or being drug addled. Which is more of a bummer for me than for you, the local gear isn't fantastic, but it's reliable and cheap... I'd have picked up a fair bit over time along with quite a few mates as well, but now you won't get a cent from any of us. Well handled!

look into "the moment of truth" as it applies to business,

VM

[AndyAmine.]

Hi KlinKava, sorry for suggesting you were involved with the 'Kavaman' scam, it was an easy mistake though.

I have tried your instant Kava and thought it was quite a good product, I look forward to buying more kava in the near future.

Welcome to SAB and I look forward to your contributions.

[Conan Troutman]

OMG A REAL KAVAMAN DOWNUNDER!

[Klin Kava]

Yep go for it...though I'd rather you tack it onto another members orders and they can forward it to me, as I'm not real big on anyone that responds to fairly logical questions from potential customers with insults or condescension, or accusation of drug abuse and/or being drug addled. Which is more of a bummer for me than for you, the local gear isn't fantastic, but it's reliable and cheap... I'd have picked up a fair bit over time along with quite a few mates as well, but now you won't get a cent from any of us. Well handled!

look into "the moment of truth" as it applies to business,

VM

Ok, I can understand you can dish it out but can't take it; which member's order do you want me to tack it onto? I'll stick to my word for the free sample and that way I "won't get a cent from any of us(you)".

Cheers

[dqd]

Let's let the results speak for themselves people. I will be providing a bioassay the evening of the day I receive the goods, and I'm sure all other orderers will do the same . I am satisfied John is not James; James doesn't reply to criticism, he simply cuts you dead, and has a very juvenile mindset/behavior when faced with opposition. At least John replies. Watch this space re bioassay/s .

Peace, forumites

let kava unite