What is your Belief?

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

while i admire this attemp to explain the unexplainable to EVERYONE concerned or NOT!?i also must point out that in principle or abstract references it is just another way of tellin the everlasting story of reconciliation of man to a god!?but dont stop your ruminating!?it is of great importance to some or many that you clearly represent the soundness of your statements by making it all into logical and cohesive whole without exceptions!?so goes the game of convincing the lost!?and yet the anwser to the perfect equation MUST include the LOST because by some strange design it has been designated that the LOST HOLD the actual KEY to the proposed solutions/answer!?BACK to the future we go!?or not!?hehe!!...just askn

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

yeah so why even question it, nobody is ever going to know its a waste of time and energy. just accept that we don't know build a bridge and get on with one's lives,

you are amazed you are not trapped!?and yes,it would seem that religion has been given the thankless job of reminding men of their FALLEN(lost)nature!?that there souls are indeed trapped in minds that go against god!?i take it your phrasing is due to a lack of any personal experience with biblical principles and mysteries!?you know how many people have said that they came to know god by studying religion to try and prove it bogus!?dont be 1 of those!?hehe!!....just askn...

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

information overload combined with expectateous participatory unforseenness can indirectly/directly cancel out spontaneous unencumbering nonconsequential enjoyable experience!?...DAMN!! another 3 minutes wasted!?hehe!!.....just askn...

If you could only grasp that it is not the individual words that WS uses. It is the contextual infusion of the amalgamated combination which suffuses his disposition on any given subject matter.

If you would just stop trying to dissect it & simply breathe it all in..... slowly.... and you will find yourself floating........softly.........and understanding.....see the pretty colors.....

i think this is UNIVERSAL GREAT ADVICE!?look ma!? a diamond in the ruff!?hehe!!.....just askn..

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

I think you are just overestimating your drivel..

yah!?i'm probably gonna find god and retire my commenting completely!?you know,just be a SILENT witness!?and all of SAB.com reply in unison.....HOW CAN WE HELP!?hehe!!......just askin....

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

is this PROOF e-harmony WORKS!?hehe!!.....just askin...

[Siggor]

you are amazed you are not trapped!?and yes,it would seem that religion has been given the thankless job of reminding men of their FALLEN(lost)nature!?that there souls are indeed trapped in minds that go against god!?i take it your phrasing is due to a lack of any personal experience with biblical principles and mysteries!?you know how many people have said that they came to know god by studying religion to try and prove it bogus!?dont be 1 of those!?hehe!!....just askn...

what the hell are you one about?? why would i be amazed that i am not trapped? simplify your posts WS and you will get an honest answer. what do you mean by "personal experience with biblical principles and mysteries!?"

[chilli]

yeah so why even question it, nobody is ever going to know its a waste of time and energy. just accept that we don't know build a bridge and get on with one's lives,

This is an easy answer, but it obviously hasn't satisfied the millions of mystics and seekers throughout history... maybe the point is not knowing. Maybe the seeking is part of what it means to know God. Maybe knowing is not logical certainty or irrefutable evidence but something more akin to the way we know a friend. Maybe some people do know, but part of knowing is not telling, and so its something everyone has to discover for themselves. Or maybe its just a big, fat, juicy paradox... probably actually.

Maybe there are more things in heaven and earth, Spudamore, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

In any case, making angry statements about what everyone should and shouldn't believe is kind of getting old... obviously, for a large part of humanity, issues of religion and spirituality are important and valuable pursuits, so maybe you're the one that need to accept it and get on with your life... or is your last name Dawkins?

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

i cant help notice that the people who have a BLIND eye for religion seem very HARD in their views and can be very calculating in their critiques as if long drawn out explanations using a common list of attributed faults repeated over and over(they never change!?)somehow is necessary to protect them from whatever they see as threatening!?and really if science were their true calling they would realize that human behavior has been studied quite thoroughly and many observations have been repeated that dont relate religion directly to any of the the supposed results they like to claim are what make religion bad!?hehe!!......just askn....

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

Hello all I was just wondering what religion everyone follows if any.

Personally I believe that our conciousness evolves to the point of pure energy if allowed to properly develop.

Ghosts are just evolved energies. When we die we enter another realm inwhich we are one with electricty.

Its hard to explain but im really still developing it in my mind. I just see this as the only possible way of life after death within the scientific realm.

Greeny,

This is cool!?, I as well have had a similar thought along this line...Here's my take...When I first learned that matter(energy, electricity) can neither be created nor destroyed, I began thinking, the brain puts off electrical charges, where does this energy go when we die? It must go somewhere. Could this energy be what some refer to as a soul!? Beats me, but, it does get the mental juices flowing, don't it!?...Just askn!?

So does a car battery have a soul!? Where does it's electrical energy go when it dies!?

Actually, this winter my car battery seemed to take on a life of it's own (it would only turn over the engine when it was convenient, if it had a soal it is pure unadulterated evil.)

was that in the bible!?hehe!!....just askn....

Maybe there are more things in heaven and earth, Spudamore, than are dreamt of in your philosophy

there's a funny thing about not knowing!?it always leads to superstitious speculation!?no matter how reasonable it may sound to the one who does not know!?hehe!!....just askn....

what the hell are you one about?? why would i be amazed that i am not trapped? simplify your posts WS and you will get an honest answer. what do you mean by "personal experience with biblical principles and mysteries!?"

you probably find "shrek" an admirable/practical outlook/principles on life!?hehe!!.....just askn...

want a real mind trip!? try reading up on reverse causality, as it relates to quantum mechanics!? You can make a reasonable argument from fundamental physics that the universe only exists because we are here to observe it!?...makes perfect sense to me!?although the observance part is more complicated than just all men "see" things with their eyes!?doesn't it imply observance CREATES the observed!?or is that what you meant!?hehe!!.....just askn....

i'm watchin the movie "pitch black" right now and i can definately see why the science people are so EAGER to explore the galaxies for intelligent life!?"chronicles of riddick" is but another example!?i love sci-fi!?it's the perfect medium to explore the existence called humanity!?as to my own beliefs,figure them out for yourself!?hehe!!....just askn...

[chilli]

there's a funny thing about not knowing!?it always leads to superstitious speculation!?

That's hilarious coming from you of all people WS.

[The Dude]

I believe in Mind / God / Consciousness as the unifying 'essence' which connects all things. 'Connect" is the wrong word. it IS all things. It exists as information, meaning, art and spirit simultaneously. Both quantitative in that it has substance and qualitative in that it is experiential and all about personal experience, personal notions of truth and beauty etc... But eh i understand that in its entirety it is transpersonal. So it only becomes personified when it is split into seperate egos expereicnging themselves subjectively. By this division we see thigns with a perspective, rahter than being omnipresent and all seeing. This creates some kind of beauty, the imperfection, the fall from grace, the fall from unity and everything (which gets boring). Out of the shism of spirit into seperate parts comes change via increasingly imperfect forms, iterations. Infinite variation which is infintly complex yet unified by some sort of harmonic, geometric principles, which are Perfect, but they exist in a Perfect Realm.. not the physical, they are the templates which we emulate, which nature emulates, however imperfectly, perfect enough to be beautiful, imperfect enough to allow for variation...

The forces of Darkness are necessary, for were there no fall, there'd be no resolution and no joy in climbing the mountain.

Synchronicities are meaningful symbols directly communicated from the most highest self, to a part of self. They connect, through meaning seperate events in space time. In a way that a thought and an event in consensus reality is so profoundly linked with meaning that it seems as though a dream, waking up and being more realistic one realises... life IS a dream

since i was a wee kid I've had coincidences happening WAY too often. selective assoication was a reason i humoured for a while until i got more realistic. What kind of skpetical crap is that? the funny thing is, the less skeptical I am the more i get to chat with god.

1st coincidence i can recall now.. in primry school or early highschool walking home had teh song "Pearl Jam - take a bottle drink it down pass it around" literally stuck in my head the whole day, i dont necessarily listen to THat song all that much, no real reason for it to get stuck, maybe i really wanted to get drunk... anyway at home, go to take a shower, turn on radio. Bang! 1st song on the radio.. since then don't get me started on how many times the radio and tv copy me!

One thing thats sitting in my head here is how synchronicities can help out... Again in the shower, with radio on.. i was thinking about the usual spiritual bullshit. I got to thinking, hey beliefs dont matter so much in their details.. jus that there is faith.. i figured i'd go to the catholic priest from my school and tell him i reckon christianity is a bunch of shit mostly, but i still want the prayers of his congregation cuz any belief held by a large percentage of the population has a global effect on everyone regardless of their personal belief, so because this chrisitnaity's been going for a while, has a bit of momentum, may as well reap some benefits, please pray for me farther, it can be like.. y'know the new churches where they unite together and forget about differences, even between totally different religions? one love yeh? wats that word mun?

"Non Denominational" says the radio man, later admiting it was a totally random word with no point in it being said... "random" eh?

and u see this was a delayed broadcast so my coinciding thought here must have known it was going to coincide before! it could send that signal to the radio man 1/2 hr earlier!

thats teh last thing... Synchronicities underly the mechenations of cause and effect as they are not subject to it, rather the other way around.. likewise it must seem that consciousness preceeds matter.. mind OVER matter. however we experience but a slice at a time.. but my higher self already knew the before before it happened.. i guess. Consciousness and Mind, transcending all dimensions as Part of all dimensions, are not restricted to one directional movement in the dimension of time as it transcends it, hence timeless! meaning time travel is possible, in the minds eye.

Meaningful?? not really?? happening with increasing frequency? Fuck Yeah!! They're not meaningFUL.. but the meaning is there that my mind and the causal mechanics of physics are interwoven. Every Synchronicity has always been uncontrolled. but with a little effort, I'm seeing 11:11 and 23 everywhere, what good does that do me though?

Ask and ye Shall receive?

message are we sending when we complain about life?

Yeah "the Secret" got to me too it's all quite Blatantly Obvious, Secret aint the most appropriate term.

[Siggor]

or is your last name Dawkins?

from the great southpark....LOL

Mr. Dawkins: Well what if I told you there was a flying spaghetti monster: Would you believe it simply because it can't be disproven?

[chilli]

Believe it or not, I only just started watching South Park a couple of weeks back, with that easter episode, which was so funny I DL a heap more... I love all this animated American crap, Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad... anyone recommend any other similar shows to DL?

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

I read selfish gene when i was 15. It sort of laid to rest

any ideas about "god". I asked my grandad when I was

8, if there is a god, why does he (sorry i was a sexist

kid ) allow forest fires and floods?

No real good answer except, he moves in mysterious ways!

Ah, he created us to kill us? No, so I gave up on "god"

in the religious sense and didnt pick up on it again until

recently, like 2 years ago, the realisation that god is the

universe, in the bible jesus was the sun, his followers were

the constellations, but i do not buy into the religious stuff,

i just see that in the bible and think, yeah, its so obvious.

its so simple its complicated! the universe is god, we are god...everything is god.

Horus was the the ‘son’ of God in Egypt.

Jesus was the Light of the World.

Horus was the Light of the World.

Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life.

Horus said he was the truth, the life.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the ‘house of bread’.

Horus was born in Annu, the ‘place of bread’.

Jesus was the Good Shepherd.

Horus was the Good Shepherd.

Seven fishers board a boat with Jesus.

Seven people board a boat with Horus.

Jesus was the lamb.

Horus was the lamb.

Jesus is identified with a cross.

Horus is identified with a cross.

Jesus was baptised at 30.

Horus was baptised at 30.

Jesus was the child of a virgin, Mary.

Horus was the child of a virgin, Isis.

The birth of Jesus was marked by a star.

The birth of Horus was marked by a star.

Jesus was the child teacher in the temple.

Horus was the child teacher in the temple.

Jesus had 12 disciples.

Horus had 12 followers.

Jesus was the Morning Star.

Horus was the Morning Star.

Jesus was the Christ.

Horus was the Krst.

Jesus was tempted on a mountain by Satan.

Horus was tempted on a mountain by Set.

Jesus is said to be the ‘judge of the dead’. He has some competition there.

This was also said of the earlier Nimrod, Khrishna, Buddha, Ormuzd, Osiris,

Aeacus and others. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

So was Khrishna, Buddha, Laokiun, Bacchus, Zeus and others. Jesus is

claimed to have performed miracles such as healing the sick and raising

people from the dead. So did Khrishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Bochia, Horus,

Osiris, Serapis, Marduk, Bacchus, Hermes and others. Jesus was born of

royal blood. So was Buddha, Rama, Fo-hi, Horus, Hercules, Bacchus, Perseus

and others. Jesus was born to a virgin. So was Khrishna, Buddha, Lao-kiun

or tsze, Confusius, Horus, Ra, Zoroaster, Prometheus, Perseus, Apollo,

Mercury, Baldur, Quetzalcoatl and far too many others to mention.

Was jesus more evolved in any way then the rest ?

Where his teachings more evolved then the others?

Jesus will, we are told, be born again.

Am I really taking the "dying on the cross around winter solstice"

TOO literally?! Oh man. Well, it was not the literature I was referring

to, but the IMAGES. Be a christian and stick to christianity if you want,

but you are just using the end product of a very long line of other far

more mysterious religions and these are certainly closer to the truth.

So, now I have taken it literally and shown above why the story of

christianity is anything but an original idea.

The full sentance I should have said before was "Jesus was a SUN. He died

on the CROSSing" because 21st December to 24th December, the sun stays

still in the sky, then on 25th December (jesus's BIRTH) it starts going again.

If you must have christianity then fine, but its not christianity anymore,

and is this true christianity the way Jesus intended ?

its not when you read a few things about Horus and Egypt. But apart from

this every religios figure, jesus, buddha, the hindu deity (the elephant with

6 or 8 arms i forget) and all others in MAIN religions, have a yellow/orange

or gold circle behind their head, or a halo above the head, or a crown of thorns.

All these are telling us, look, although people who will **** out these facts

will never know the truth about it, so what, we are not aiming at those people,

they can just live and die, it is the people who know whats going on, so then they

will see this in religions and just know its all wrong.

Avoid the main religions and you will start to make a lot more sense of the world.

Which I guess is the exact thing Richard Dawkins is trying to say, but

I have the advantage of NOT having a load of letters after my name,

lectures to go to... so I will say it! Its pretty cool how you cant lose your

job when you have no job to lose. No one has told me what to do since

January 10th, its wonderful

The temple to Hathor at Denderah, Egypt was constructed as a monument and a learning venue for Motherhood. The design of the monument carries the celestial theme throughout its grand architecture. Within each chamber and hall are magnificent and profound works of art which glorify the qualities of benevolent motherhood. In the entrance areas are fully inscribed columns with the Nile Lotus replaced by the head of Hathor wearing her traditional wig over cow ears. The temple is the product of the Hellenistic Period after the conquests of Alexander the Great during the Ptolemaic Dynasties, just prior to, and overlapping the initiation of the Christian era..

The Nile Lotus and the Wig of Hathor are both symbols of the object held in the hand of the constellation Virgo. Modern astronomers recognize the wig as Coma Berenices; the wig of Berenices. However it should be self evident that the stars at the top of the axis of the galactic sphere can be connected to look like a sprig of wheat, an ear of corn, a Red Pandanus, a Nile Lotus, an Indus Lotus, or any fertile flower. The essence of a fertile flower is the theme of the temple to Hathor, and the essence of benevolent motherhood. This essence is drawn directly from the positions of the stars at the top axis of the galactic plane of the Milky Way, perceived from earth.

In the ceiling of the Osiris chamber the architects installed a cosmic story about the deflowering of motherhood. The story was told as a prophecy, and an example teleology; the belief that design and purpose are apparent in nature. It is derived from the Egyptian record of the experiences of life, and their recorded knowledge of the most ancient traditions of the whole world. It is the quintessential document which relates to the conversation between the Egyptian priest and Solon in Plato's dialogue by Critias. For the monument reads like a history book, in which the clock of the heavens defines the space-time frame, and the rhythm of Plato's Dance of the Gods. Besides a history of the ancient world, the monument tells a story about the maturation cycle of human souls in the whole of Western Civilization for an additional 8600 years to come. The solar eclipse of August 1999 demonstrates that the great accuracy of the celestial knowledge of the temple architects included dramatic teleological aspects. Within the presentation of their material science, the spiritual message of the Egyptian priests and priestesses is clearly visible. It is a story about love and reason, arrogance and wisdom, banishment and salvation. Most of all, it is a story about a man child (Horus) and his mother (Hathor), and the dialog of mankind with the Creator.

This is the Greatest Story Ever Told. It has been told around the world. In Polynesian traditions it is the legend of the Land Under the Land, where a disenchanted wife meets a stranger and goes to the Land of Shadows to have her husband's child before returning to the top of the world with peace in her heart, and a Red Pandanus in her hand. In Mesoamerica it is the legend of Hanahpu and his brother Xbalanque. In Mesopotamia it is the legend of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, among many others. In India it is the dance of Shiva. In China and east Asia, it is the dance of the Sun Dragon. The Bible tells the same story with many different players, including Adam and Eve, Isaac and Ishmael, Aaron and Moses, John and Jesus, and the Child of the Madonna. On August 11, 1999, the sun winked as it entered into the Kingdom of Heaven. To let this incredibly important moment pass without recognition of its historical value would be a sacrilege against all that has been sacred since the beginning of the dialogue between man and Creator. For, to be silent is repression. Thus, this story is being told in the hopes that a modern world is not so cosmically deaf that it has lost all value in its ancient sacred meaning.

COMMON SENSE IS INTUITIVE

The reason why so many of the world's sacred myths have a familiar ring to them is the fact that they were all taken from the same patterns in the stars. To say that the stars contain Plato's Lost Island of Atlantis would not be an exaggeration, for the stars contain all the lost legends of our past. The legends are all testaments to the observational brilliance that accumulated at the predawn and early dawn of civilization. They are the foundations of our modern Jungian archetypes. Within these great legends is an unmistakable common belief in the benevolence of Mother Nature. It is the trust and faith that humans gave to Mother Nature that caused her to be deflowered as Western Civilization became a domain of the rule of law. Civilization is not to blame for her being deflowered. It is a process which humanity must pass through. Mother Nature deflowered herself so that the man child could grow to full maturity. The stranger she had come to know was the rationalizing husband and the immature son that she loved so dearly. They had forgotten her value as the vessel of life. In her own words, as spoken through her son, we find the echo of all the great legends.

John 14:1-3

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.

I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself;

that where I am, there ye may be also.

The deflowering of motherhood is the essential path which all children must follow, sooner or later. For you see, it is not the mother's body that is deflowered, it is the ideal of the goddess she represented when we were young. Our rational mind searches for scientific truth, in the hope that one day we can be independent of the myths we learned within the mothering bonds that we hold in the memories of our youth. When we finally reach the end of our adolescent umbilical cord, it breaks, and we search for the mothering bonds to find out what went wrong. As we turn back, we can become a "pillar of salt" and lose all emotional bondage, or we can shed the tears of our temporal identity and be grateful that the Cosmos was willing to give us mothering when it was needed. After the bond is broken, it can be restored again by the simple grace of gratitude. Then we become wise and are capable of passing on to those who follow us, the stories we once believed to be the material and maternal facts of life. At the end of our mother's cord we learn that she had prepared us to break the bondage of the rational umbilical cord, which was our dream of her divine nature. A few years wandering in the wilderness is all that any rational person needs to recognize that we do not live in a world dominated by the rational ideas of men, we live in a world bound to the breast of Mother Nature. We cannot break that bondage by death. We can only stress and distort it by denial during life.

Hidden behind the logic of this microscopic maturation cycle of a single human soul is the macroscopic maturation cycle of civilizations. Like individuals, civilizations strive to break the umbilical bondage. And like individuals, health is restored when a civilization recognizes that Mother Nature knows only Tough Love. She gives us a scepter of flint as proof that we are capable of self inspiration when we walk in the pits of our emotions. She gives us a flail as proof that we can overcome physical stress. She gives us a crook as proof that we can lead others to the Promised Land. And last, she gives us a door through which we can pass a material record of our lives on to her children who come after us. In Egypt the door was Rostau, where Osiris ascended to Orion, and the Great Pyramids promised his return. It is through that door that the present essay will lead. The metaphor of the way of the door has been fabricated many times and in many ways. The ceiling monument in the chapel to Osiris is a detail of Mother Nature's passages through the cosmic door into the mystery of the heavens.

A VOICE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS

To understand the spirit nature of the serpent under the lion's feet, we have to look back to the place where the adolescent child was released from its mother's bondage. There we will see a cocky man with the flail and a scepter striding boldly in a wilderness above a serpent with an atef crown. This is an embellished crown of Osiris. It represents virtuous experience by rational means (white pin and feathers). The compressed serpent tells us that the virtuous experience was not received by wandering in the wilderness, it was received as stories told by the "Old Crow" earlier in the cycle of life. This matriarchal story teller is shown as the Crone below the back feet of Leo on the monument. This grandmother's child acquires a misunderstood belief that her knowledge is superior to all enemies and he will receive the reward of the heavens by virtue of her knowledge. This belief is the inspiration symbolised by the scepter in the left hand. The flail on the right shoulder implies courageous action. Together they demonstrate the words of Ps 23:4. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." When we return to the Leo lion icon, we recognize that the serpent has no more folds. In other words, the mysteries of the journey have all been unwound. Now we need to see how the Cocky Man became a Prince of Peace riding in the Kingdom of Heaven, with regal understanding of the meaning of the flail. Eventually, the child will receive the scepter again, and when it is received the second time it will be gripped by two hands extending from the gut. The power of the scepter is so great, that it must be held close to the bosom in both hands, for it is gut instincts in the form of mature intuition. Rational knowledge fails when we walk in a wilderness which our paradigms do not comprehend. This is the journey of life as identified on the Denderah monument. Faith in one's self is mandatory, yet treacherous. It is a great roller coaster with many hills and dales, turns and loops. The way of the adept is to hang on to the scepter of inspiration for dear life and abundant dreams.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Warrioe-Sage

[Amulte]

Believe it or not, I only just started watching South Park a couple of weeks back, with that easter episode, which was so funny I DL a heap more... I love all this animated American crap, Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad... anyone recommend any other similar shows to DL?

futurama ofcourse LOL monkey dust is also good but can be a bit to much for some. invader zim is trippy ;)

www.southparkx.net

www.familyguyx.net

in reguards to topic, i learnt long ago not to share my ideals/beliefs in an open forum. some people will all too often judge.

ill say this tho, star seeder ;)

[nabraxas]

i learnt long ago not to share my ideals/beliefs in an open forum. some people will all too often judge.

ill say this tho, star seeder ;)

geezer, that's pretty cool. Never thought i'd meet someone else who based their beliefs on the TV show 'Fame". The chorus from that song really sums it up:

Star maker

Dream breaker

Soul taker

We're happy now

[Jesus On Peyote]

i learnt long ago not to share my ideals/beliefs in an open forum. some people will all too often judge.

Dont agree,let em judge. some people seem this forum like a political thing, trying to save face by not saying something about certain things.

if you dont have a desire to talk about certain things thats ok, but if you want to discuss something, you should without fear of people judging you.

That might sound weird coming from me (WS thing) but hes a different story.

[Amulte]

geezer, that's pretty cool. Never thought i'd meet someone else who based their beliefs on the TV show 'Fame". The chorus from that song really sums it up:

ROFLMAO got no idea where that came from LOL

and yeah JoP, i shouldnt worry about judgment, its just the crap people give with it, almost can become a conversion party ive noticed LOL. sall good tho, i just prefer to discuss these things in person so detail isnt lost. lol my ideals are pretty out there. atlantian/peladian cultures started the earth and psychedelics were their tools of evolution LOL theres alot more detail.

i prefer ideals over beliefs, beliefs are so fixed whereas ideal can change (dogma)

[The Dude]

A lot of the time, i see Myths, Movies, songs, artworks, which allude to something more. It seems their are constructs in the psyche (spiritual realm??) that predefine the shape of our cultural myths.. Archetypes yes? just as Gensis is a symbolic myth of the birth of man, or the birth of conscious man, so too i believe a lot of the alien origin stories could very well be symbolic. True we may have descended from the stars, in our essnce or souls, it does not require a physical journey from a distant star system. With the universe being a flat 2d holograph projecting physical reality everywhere, im sure at a higher dimensional level moving information (or essnce or soul) via physical means like spaceships is silly, lets just seed the planet with consciousness via hyperdimensional travel???

Also I'd continue with this in saying that the universe is a drama or a poem. we seem to be re-iterating the same stories in infinite variations. Because we all come from the same source, and there is a field of consciusness that underlies the mechanics of cause and effect, that transcend mind and metter and isn't subject to either but rather in control of both. Therefore we can see all over the place symbolic relevance to ourselves and our lives because we are all living the same life (from different perspectives) in an infinitely self similar holograph. Perhaps this is dictated by the stars.. by our astrology and myth creating... but it is my belief the universe IS intelligence, not cold rational intelligence, more like a dynamic emotional intelligence, that keeps reflecting itself to itself. The mirrors have been spray painted with 'progress' and 'rationality' however.

so my question is, are we by the act of creating.. providing myths and stories uploaded into the collective to then later become archetypes and.. in this way continually creating our own realities, our own paradigms and even creating/modifying our own archetypes.

Or was all that will ever be predetermined by the Omega point strange attractor at the end of time.. and we're merely uncovering pieces of the story bit by bit.

Reality = more than existance.. reality is existance with meaning. The universe provides meaning for those who seek. It looks at you when you think only you can look at it. it talks to you when in the past it seemed only you were talking to it. Its a very humbling expereince to see that you dont own your reality, but are only a part of it.

Also... Reality is an unsolved equation. It cannot be a complete and consistent equation (no such thing exists). that is it can explain itself consistently, but then not completely, or if it is to be a complete theory, it cannot be consistent, paradox is an integral aspect of reality which cannot be escaped. It's like that thought you had in your head when you were younger looking at the stars.. "wow, look at all those stars out there, and wow im all the way down ehre.. wow i Am here, wow there are stars there.. wow theres something instead of nothing! but WHY?" Brain tickle!

...about equations, maths and logic. and the inherent existence of paradox, nothign is complete AND consistent.

Ok let's talk mathematics (You knew Id get in on this didnt you?). You are holding that Math exists like a realm of the forms in Platonism. I AM going to argue that math is not really existent like this because I think you make a mistake in thinking that Pi is somehow different from regular numbers which we abstract from others.

Math IS abstracted from particulars. You can not point to something and say that is the number 1. Rather all math is relational in nature. Advanced math is just more advanced methods of showing relations between these theoretical constructs. We use said system to interpret things in the world. Pi is the relation of a THEORETICAL circle's diameter to its circumfrence. Pi does not exist outside of the system of theory, because only in said system does it make sense to talk about perfect relations since the world does not necessarily conform to that theory.

Rejection #2: Math is not true. Provable, but not true. It is provable only by its own axioms within the system. However, there always exists something that the system can not explain, so it must reach outside of itself to come up with additional axioms to explain things. Logic has the same problem (Anyone hate logic? You'll love this...). Let me introduce you to a man named Godel.

1. Someone introduces Gödel to a UTM, a machine that is supposed to be a Universal Truth Machine, capable of correctly answering any question at all.

2. Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design of the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can only be finitely long. Call the program P(UTM) for Program of the Universal Truth Machine.

3. Smiling a little, Gödel writes out the following sentence: "The machine constructed on the basis of the program P(UTM) will never say that this sentence is true." Call this sentence G for Gödel. Note that G is equivalent to: "UTM will never say G is true."

4. Now Gödel laughs his high laugh and asks UTM whether G is true or not.

5. If UTM says G is true, then "UTM will never say G is true" is false. If "UTM will never say G is true" is false, then G is false (since G = "UTM will never say G is true"). So if UTM says G is true, then G is in fact false, and UTM has made a false statement. So UTM will never say that G is true, since UTM makes only true statements.

6. We have established that UTM will never say G is true. So "UTM will never say G is true" is in fact a true statement. So G is true (since G = "UTM will never say G is true").

7. "I know a truth that UTM can never utter," Gödel says. "I know that G is true. UTM is not truly universal."

With his great mathematical and logical genius, Gödel was able to find a way (for any given P(UTM)) actually to write down a complicated polynomial equation that has a solution if and only if G is true. So G is not at all some vague or non-mathematical sentence. G is a specific mathematical problem that we know the answer to, even though UTM does not! So UTM does not, and cannot, embody a best and final theory of mathematics ...

Although this theorem can be stated and proved in a rigorously mathematical way, what it seems to say is that rational thought can never penetrate to the final ultimate truth ... But, paradoxically, to understand Gödel's proof is to find a sort of liberation. For many logic students, the final breakthrough to full understanding of the Incompleteness Theorem is practically a conversion experience. This is partly a by-product of the potent mystique Gödel's name carries. But, more profoundly, to understand the essentially labyrinthine nature of the castle is, somehow, to be free of it.

simpsons made reference to this with homer wanting a robot just so they could fuck with it and its logic "but if its true it must be false but if its false it must be true!?!"

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

That's hilarious coming from you of all people WS.

Speculation is not somewhere we should begin.

First of all, we cannot assume that somebody that posts in a forum is who they say they are. We also don't know for certain what if anything they may be experiencing.

We can only observe.

Just don't assume that you know what is going on about everything just because you read an Internet posting.

Some of you need to study more, and assume much less.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Warrioe-Sage

[chilli]

Speculation is not somewhere we should begin.

I agree, my point was that the vast majority of your posts consist of unverifiable speculation, so you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

First of all, we cannot assume that somebody that posts in a forum is who they say they are. We also don't know for certain what if anything they may be experiencing.

Not sure how this is relevant.

Just don't assume that you know what is going on about everything just because you read an Internet posting.

I doubt anyone does.

Some of you need to study more, and assume much less.

Good advice, although you seem to be making a number of big assumptions in order to give it.

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

Good advice, although you seem to be making a number of big assumptions in order to give it.

Think of it as a reminder.

That goes for WS as well

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

If you want a real mind trip, try reading up on reverse causality, as it relates to quantum mechanics. You can make a reasonable argument from fundamental physics that the universe only exists because we are here to observe it.

like all subatomic particles exist in two-states. Intially they are in an amorphous, hazy, ill - defined wave state; as in they are like not solid. Until we decide to observe a particle, ands the act of observation collapses the hazy-wave, and suddenly particles become solid with a real identity and a defined location.

Is that how 3D becomes solid?

is that coz our brain and cxonsciousness is a quantum feild like any other ?

So its like you are trillions of squillions of of little particles. and your mind and consciousness are signals given off by a sub atomic feild of energy ?

what is the feild of energy?

So its like making life real by observing it?

can anyone recommand some videos or mp3s on quantum mechanics ?

that is not 'the secret'.

I have been lookin for some thing on this, even if its just scientist talking.

[komodo]

maybe not particles, but just a general field of continually (analogue) variable probability and density.. i suspect that the scientific equipment used to observe phenomenon, our biological sensorum, and the prevailing human consciousness are responsible for 'packaging' quantities and qualities of the general field into categories, objects, particles...

Edited May 1, 2007 by komodo

[The Dude]

maybe not particles, but just a general field of continually (analogue) variable probability and density.. i suspect that the scientific equipment used to observe phenomenon, our biological sensorum, and the prevailing human consciousness are responsible for 'packaging' quantities and qualities of the general field into categories, objects, particles...

Aye, it is simply the rationalistic ownership model of thinking which categorises all, wheras perhaps the truth of the matter is reality is continuous. I'm thinking that maybe the reality we're creating is constructed from vague probabilities, making nothing really 'discrete' or perfect in any sense. Is there anywhere a perfect circle? or perfect fractal formations, or perfect crystals? nowhere is there 100% perfection. Yet there is the constant of pi or the golden ratio Phi. there is a realm of fractals that are perfect. the realm of forms and maths, geometry etc... which we emulate on the physical plane in an imperfect way.. i dunno wtf im talking about anymore, did some1 once say shit about not wasting my time?