Use of psychedelics in Australian Aborignial cultures?

[chilli]

bred and farmed? I thinks that taking it a bit far.

maybe weak plants were culled over time, but I can't imagine it being farmed [ie intentionally planted] there. just my opinion though.

Yeah that sounds pretty dumb.. I hadn't even read the whole article, so at first I thought I'd missed something.

I just got this image of these aborigines in overalls and straw hats, carrying pitchforks and setting up scarewcrows...

OMG, maybe I am shroomytonos.

Anyway, what the hell are you doing up at this hour?

[Vertmorpheus]

Evenin folks....don't worry I've had a chat with this n that today and have come to the conclusion that the last thing any of us, purebred this or "descended from" that, needs is divisiveness. Or giving those that get their kicks out of that kinda stuff the joy of seeing those pesky locals arguing again any kind of satisfaction. Things are as they are, I feel and live and know what I am, what my family are. Maybe a call to remember that fascists don't always have ice blue eyes and blonde hair, or just to remember that you can't go lumping hundred of nations together , tens of thousands of family groups together, under the banner of a few stray bits of DNA... noone is tha tdifferent from anyone else, give or take the odd enzymatic difference here, bit of extra browridge there. The rest is learned behaviour and maybe just maybe "genetic memory" (whole other kettle of mudcrabs that one). Defining "aboriginal values" is perhaps just as silly as trying to define "aussie values" (johnny, what are you thinking? anything?). It verges on the .... phrenological. Outdated ideas.

As for putting that much of myself out there... I reckon if you don't stand for something, you might as well be dead. Seriously. What are we without our values and beliefs, and what hope do others have of some understanding of wht they are except viewing them thru the filter of your past and your present. I am who I am, no shame, no secrecy really. Not giving anyone my visa number but ya get what I mean (to the prince of nigeria, and whoever tried for a night a while back thru powertel sydney to have a peeksy inside my comp...better luck next time). And none of that is especially identifying to anyone otherthan a fairly... well selective grouping isn't the word...but it cleans a lot of chaff from the good beans. There's bad beans concerned, but they can't find the people they'd like to via just knowing who I am and where I am.(Once again, whole other story). In any case, it bothers me none, if anyone wants to suss who is who they can get it done fairly quickly thesedays if they're really THAT determined, but most lackwits aren't, so that keeps the good people safe haha.that, and I remember now n then that I do take a little explanation to some people... these things too will happen.

Cheers for the feedback all, you know who you are. But apologies yet again for clogging the joint with this bullshit.I don't have a heap of free time and I'm sure you guys would rather read something informative with yours.

Re : farming etc, there is apparently some account from early colonists of areas that seemed to have been planted in rows or clumps ... they might've been mistaken.Might just be if you cast enough stones into an area some will start to line up. But digging stick grocery shopping teaches you a lot about the little things plants do, for what its worth. Ergonomics being what they are, people that tend to eat the same size n weight n kind of fruit for example at the same locations year after year will probably tend to throw their left overs in the same direction...like when driving out of town, you notice at certain points the "mikky d's dropoff points", that is, a distance from the last mikkys at which MOST bogans have finished the large coke and chucked the cup out the window. Ciggie butts tend to do the same thing on pedestrian friendly routes to train stations. Tomato seeds ending up in token garden beds near tradie-feeding fast food shops. When you pee on something it can be noticeably greener and shinier that afternoon or the next day... I'm sure that too would've been noticed. But overall maybe it was realised that nature already has permaculture sussed, if you keep it lean you can live off the scant excess fairly well , or sometimes not.

The destroying alkaloids things has me thinking that maybe...and this is a bit simplistic, but its easier to think in comic book fashion sometimes... well "we" mix great bud with tobacco, decent spirits with everything, use cocoa at a low percentage in dairy and vege fats rather than just drinking coco powder n cold water... maybe it was a case of simply trying to knock some of the potency on the head to make it a bit more user friendly? I know when I get tobacco plants thru they take a lot of careful timing, deliberately induced nitrogen drawdown , curing, etc before you can really smoke it at a comfortable rate...fresh picked it will just lay you on your arse like a schoolkid with a stolen winnie red on an empty stomach haha. It'd be nice to think that as a species we could just use LESS of something, but that doesn't seem to suit a lot of us :D sometimes easier to just bulk it out some, cut it back somehow. Also the more status relevant drugs seem to carry more "weight" with the masses if you use them at high or constant levels (do we really think that mark emery wanker is smoking pure NL 14 hours a day every day, and if he is, still getting off from it). Plenty of sales reppy kinda blokes will ask for the chiv regal after work but don't seem to be knocking em off straight.Just some thoughts.

Somethin in the previous posts about "hinting at a lot more than they can write about"... kinda in two or three minds about that. I can NEVER remember the word, but there's a word for going out of your way to use trade or tech specific terms etc to make what you do seem harder and so make yourself seem more impressive... it's not "overpriced consultant" but it might be similar . Sometimes yes people are initiated members of various groups, and sometimes it's just that a friend has told it to them in trust... but in either of THOSE cases they'd know enough to just STFU about it entirely..rather than dropping these lil tidbits of baitbits for our fishy minds to sniff. I think in most cases it's just literatis needing to seem like illuminati's.Try getting most members of all these "western mystery traditions" to tell you A mystery...just hint at its enormity...and they come up with jack. When ranking members of those groups go awol, they have plenty of dirt on the wife swapping and tax dodging but bugger all to say about the big enlightening secret. So the goddess marries death...WOW... that just explains so much more than toroid energy forms, fractals, theory of conservation of energy, bla bla :D

Anyway, keep dreaming and remember...just because someone is a member of a social ethnic sexual or religious minority doesn't mean they CAN'T be a nasty little prick... we call that "equal opportunity". Pity people can't use that equal op to contribute rather than detract...cos gods know there isn't enough negativity in this world as it is.

GD

[Torsten]

areas that seemed to have been planted in rows or clumps

I didn't mean to infer that the no farming scepticism applied to all plants and areas. Seems logical to me that when fruit is eaten that seeds could be planted in intentional areas and patterns. My comment was specifically about Duboisia hopwoodii because of the way it grows. It is not possible to just stick a seed in the sand and expect it to grow. Pituri needs a certain amount of rain and a certain amount of water storage within the dune. Then it also requires the water level in that part of the dune to remain above the clay pan during the dry times or the plant will simply die. I guess looking at the other vegetation on the dune may allow one to draw some conclusions as to suitable spots.

The destroying alkaloids things has me thinking that maybe...and this is a bit simplistic, but its easier to think in comic book fashion sometimes... well "we" mix great bud with tobacco, decent spirits with everything

yes, this seems like a reasonable concept for the local use. It would be kinda pointless for the export market though. The pituri trader would have to carry more weight for less bang which doesn't make sense.

However, there may be another explanation. About 30% of the nicotine in pituri is freebase. This base is extremely hot to eat. Burns just like chili. The heat treatment would remove primarily the freebase depending on various other preparation steps. So if it was just a matter of heating it then the purpose is probably just to make it palatable. However, there is some evidence that the leaves were sometimes crushed and rubbed with ash, ie indicating a desire to turn more of the nicotine into the low boiling point freebase.

So, until I get around to getting some more fresh stuff and applying this method to the fresh material in various permutations, I can only guess at a broad range of possibilities.

Somethin in the previous posts about "hinting at a lot more than they can write about"... kinda in two or three minds about that. I can NEVER remember the word, but there's a word for going out of your way to use trade or tech specific terms etc to make what you do seem harder and so make yourself seem more impressive... it's not "overpriced consultant" but it might be similar .

yes, considered this too. I am basing my opinion here on two individuals in particular who did the research, but never actually published anything on it. They spent several years in the traditional setting and come out with nothing to say other than that they can't betray their new family? That's what fascinated me.

[chilli]

Hey GreenDreams,

When I first started reading your posts I got the impression you were a bit full of yourself...

Then I remembered that I tend to be a mistrustful, judgmental hypocrite who manages to find something wrong with just about everyone I meet for the first time, and I kept reading your posts...

I would like to say I think you seem like a remarkable individual, and I am impressed by your energy, thoughtfulness and wit... your creativity and knowledge come out in every paragraph.

[Anodyne]

Husk,

I didn't call anyone "white", it was "whitie", which I meant to be taken in the Michael Moore sense, to mean basically "not black", or in this context "not aboriginal". And as I do understand that identifying as aboriginal isn't only based on blood/relations/skin colour, I guess it would more specifically mean "anyone who does not identify themselves as aboriginal", which includes people of all different shapes, colours & sizes, including those of aboriginal heritage who don't identify as such. Guess I should have been a bit less obscure, huh?

And yeah, I'm curious too, but I don't believe that I'm entitled to know simply because I want to.

i hate this attack on (it must be called such) 'non idigenous' ppl having an interest in somthn other than what is going on now and in their own place, like any interest would only be for exploitative or self fulfilling reasons.

I wasn't "attacking" all non-indigenous people, just the ones who want to use someone else's culture to justify their drug use. If you're not one of these people, then you shouldn't be offended.

sure a lot of ppl may start out just experimenting and getting high but can it not progress from there?

Of course it can! And should! But why do people need to leech off of another people's traditions to do it?! Take inspiration from those that are willing to share it, by all means, then create your own rituals and such, as a community, or individually, whatever works for you. But you have to draw on your own culture as well, you can't simply adopt another culture's ritual for, initiation using tropanes, for instance, because you don't have the context that this ritual fits into. Do you understand what I'm getting at? If you are taking psychedelics, you should be taking them for your own reasons, not because you read about some shaman in Colombia that takes them for this reason. Because psychedelics are fantastically good at ripping self-deceptions to shreds, and it's usually not a pleasant experience - you don't want to be caught lying when your brain finally wakes up. Better to just avoid it in the first place by being honest with yourself. About everything, not just your reasons for using drugs. I know that there are plenty of people who honestly do consider psychedelics to be a spiritual experience (myself included, as far as my spiritual side goes), and I'm not for one moment suggesting that they're lying to themselves or anyone else in any way. However I also know there are people who feel very few ties with their own culture, who read some book about Peruvian shamans or Nigerian medicine men and think "hey, if I become a shaman, I can take these drugs I like all the time". Why not just say "hey, I like taking these drugs because they're fun/enlightening/painkillers/stimulating/cathartic/educational/whateveryourreasons" and then get on with it? And then, if you read about some aspect of the drug & its use that you find interesting, like DMT being used to diagnose diseases or whatever, then you can try incorporating that into your own way of using the drug.

Hope I've been bit clearer this time round.

[husk]

Husk,

I didn't call anyone "white", it was "whitie", which I meant to be taken in the Michael Moore sense, to mean basically "not black", or in this context "not aboriginal". And as I do understand that identifying as aboriginal isn't only based on blood/relations/skin colour, I guess it would more specifically mean "anyone who does not identify themselves as aboriginal", which includes people of all different shapes, colours & sizes, including those of aboriginal heritage who don't identify as such. Guess I should have been a bit less obscure, huh?

yes u could have been less obscure.

talking of evolution and acceptence in the new millenium and ppl are still 'white', 'black', 'yellow' (i hear that one too much) first and foremost? what about thier name? yes this prolly sounds over the top but it would really prevent generalisations if one was to stop referring to ppl on the whole, which u weren't doing but still managed to offend despite.

I wasn't "attacking" all non-indigenous people, just the ones who want to use someone else's culture to justify their drug use. If you're not one of these people, then you shouldn't be offended.

why don't u address them privately if u know they exist in yr world?

haha yes u found me out i want to be yr idea of an 'indigenous australian' so i can sell my 'knowledge' or their non-existant(seemingly) DMT use and make a name for myself. let me say yr sooooo far from wrong.

i started by defending my strong stance on the use of the word '*white' to describe someone.

*are u listening to too much shitty rap or somthn?

and i then said somthn along the lines of 'knowing more' about the said culture, NOT misusing/abusing it!

Of course it can! And should! But why do people need to leech off of another people's traditions to do it?! Take inspiration from those that are willing to share it, by all means, then create your own rituals and such, as a community, or individually, whatever works for you. But you have to draw on your own culture as well, you can't simply adopt another culture's ritual for, initiation using tropanes, for instance, because you don't have the context that this ritual fits into. Do you understand what I'm getting at? If you are taking psychedelics, you should be taking them for your own reasons, not because you read about some shaman in Colombia that takes them for this reason. Because psychedelics are fantastically good at ripping self-deceptions to shreds, and it's usually not a pleasant experience - you don't want to be caught lying when your brain finally wakes up. Better to just avoid it in the first place by being honest with yourself. About everything, not just your reasons for using drugs. I know that there are plenty of people who honestly do consider psychedelics to be a spiritual experience (myself included, as far as my spiritual side goes), and I'm not for one moment suggesting that they're lying to themselves or anyone else in any way. However I also know there are people who feel very few ties with their own culture, who read some book about Peruvian shamans or Nigerian medicine men and think "hey, if I become a shaman, I can take these drugs I like all the time". Why not just say "hey, I like taking these drugs because they're fun/enlightening/painkillers/stimulating/cathartic/educational/whateveryourreasons" and then get on with it? And then, if you read about some aspect of the drug & its use that you find interesting, like DMT being used to diagnose diseases or whatever, then you can try incorporating that into your own way of using the drug.

Hope I've been bit clearer this time round.

no clearer to me im sorry. once again i reffered to ppl learning of and finding out about ALL aspects of another culture.

i don't think anyone has said they want to be an 'aboriginal medicine man' on this thread.

and if u want to take this path, hypothetically it's more likely someone would follow such a route of misusing another's culture, cos ppl like u using statements that refer to the colour of their skin and thus their useless, destructive culture would feel threatened and disenchanted with their own 'way' of living, despite it being anything but, and then they may turn to 'find themselves' with a more, (once again in yr eyes) accepted culture, lifestyle, way whatever u want to call it.

remember Ano, hypothectical example was this.

side note:

some of u may notice that i have gone back of my before mentioned attempt to steer clear of frustrating and pointless exercises such as this on this forum, and those of u that care can witness me now attempting to again.

Ano- i would appreciate it if we can settle this soon and once and for all and make up or avoid replying to each other to keep the peace so my over sensitive side can stop itself from revisiting the old posts in an attempt to make my point clear and defend myself.

x peace and helpful advice

Edited March 22, 2007 by husk

[XipeTotec]

Yeah that sounds pretty dumb.. I hadn't even read the whole article, so at first I thought I'd missed something.

I just got this image of these aborigines in overalls and straw hats, carrying pitchforks and setting up scarewcrows...

OMG, maybe I am shroomytonos.

Anyway, what the hell are you doing up at this hour?

i woke up this morning and felt my bat sense going off.... what do u mean by this?

Edited March 22, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[chilli]

i woke up this morning and felt my bat sense going off.... what do u mean by this?

Sorry shroomytonos, its because I made a corny joke earlier in the thread and Torsten said he had expected someone to say it, probably you.

[XipeTotec]

Sorry shroomytonos, its because I made a corny joke earlier in the thread and Torsten said he had expected someone to say it, probably you.

thats ok... i missed that. I do make corny jokes... its true

[Vertmorpheus]

Evenin all,

No worries IllegalB, if flattery didn't work it wouldn't be so popular ... then again I'm suspicious and judgemental enough myself to usually wonder what I'm being buttered up for Nah thats cool, I'm one of those love hate people...worked out early that if you say what ppl agree with your wise and if you say what they don't agree with they call you an arsehole, no matter the truth or weight of what was actually said.All I can be is myself (and even that's a hassle, lost the manual years ago). I am very full of myself, I tried being full of other people for a while but I was less than inspired...things have to be in our heart's own words before we really can rely on them. We're none of us the Dalai Lama, and even then I'd like to see how composed that bloke is when some dipshit in a brand new prado decides to change lanes over the top of his car

If you want to see monks at their finest, go to toowoomba... I've seen buddhist monks saffrons n all literally get out of cars to direct traffic to stop so the rest of the monks could reverse out of carparks. Great stuff.Really bothers the local whitebread types haha.But they've seen the docos on Xiaolin monks and are too chicken to roadrage em at anything like an audible level.

Still a bit angry in here, thats a bit sad, but you get that with such loaded issues as cultural identity and who has the right to say what about who...Thinkin though that we might be taking different approaches to things but I think the bulk of us here want the same thing...to be left the hell alone to be as happy as we know we can be, and free from the PTB telling us that we CAN'T put plant x in our bodies but have no choice about ingesting or breathing chemical x or GM frankenplant x.Or being told that "its a lovely day and those plants are just bursting" is no excuse to go doing anything as drastic as not going to work that day, or daring to do something as sociopathic as getting out of the car and looking at the local plant life (no, there's a fence! it'd be anarchy!)Issues of actual offence or percieved offensive conduct are a different thing of course...but I don't think anyone MEANS to offend anyone in all of this, if we did there's MUCH more effective ways of pushing people's buttons than just using the "wrong" word (how auto-orwellian we are sometimes,as long as we can think like that the state will get away with it too)..real agitators and haters know that, and would be too busy at stormfront.org or something to be reading up on what plant does what.We need to be more accepting (to an extent of course) and remember that we're the good guys... the scanning for negative intent and BS remarks is more of a real world issue, but one so ingrained in many of us that we can't quite drop the defenses even among good company.Maybe getting the that darker half of the year puts us all on edge Stressin about frost and low flying planes...

Was thinkin bout export , weights v potency etc today Torsten... at first it doesn't make any sense to me knock potency on the head either, but... as the dodgy powder n goo in bags trade tells us, just because you get pure doesn't mean your customer base expects or relies on getting the same... if I buy weight x off some local trader in pituri, and can get it up to weight x + .3 ... well that makes me a little extra (or lets me keep a pure .3 for myself or more preferred buyers,and stronger means easier to conceal the stuff from those that would pinch it while I was lookin the other way), the punters still get a buzz AND they're back for more, sooner. Plenty of people smoke menthols or 4mg cigs rather than dr pat roll your owns or whatever...despite there being more bang for the buck in the latter (only people that work for a living understand this haha). Failing adding weight, if you can get users into a more wasteful OR a more speedy rate of use, that can't be a bad thing sales-wise. Speedfreaks going shots rather than just gumming a bit or whatever...yes they might be blown away now but theyll be chasing a lot more quickly too. Vaporisation of hash or oil is a MUCH better way to use thc , but most of us just stuff it (mixed) into something and burn the crap out of it with a cheap bic.(theoretically that is. I mean, I've heard on four corners n stuff).

The booze trade is a good example... the last can of 2-4 percent domestic beer you had wasn't brewed to that level (usually not anyway), chances are its a product of supercritical fermentation, which actually gives em something closer to 20 percent (from memory,might be higher) then they can add this or that, cut it back to whatever strength...but in the meantime is a lot easier to transport and pump around, less energy use, keeps surface area down to prevent spoilage risks and oxidation etc. Spirits of course are usually cheapshit knockoffs of real drinks made from neutral spirit, just about anhydrous, plus glycerides , caramels, essences and more water. We COULD be getting 10 dollar bottles of 90 percent rum, but the supply structure knows we don't really expect it from them. So its 30 dollar bottles of 38 percent , with residual pesticides, added crap for "mouth feel" and "flavour unity" (read: sunday morning just got scarier) It'd be nice to think ancient pituri traders were in it for the love but with that much demand, a lot of BS would've gotten involved, ppl bein ppl n all.Esp. given how many different "countries" you would've had to pay dues in.. like the tantallium trade in the congo (think I spelt that right).The current pharmachem industry and the old spice trade are full of similar issues...14 bucks for a packet of 20 pills that only contain about one pills worth of actives but the rest makes it look pretty. Just some thoughts that came to me as I was being violently ill at work, but thats another post.

Aborigines in straw hats with pitchforks gave me the further mental image of essentially Amish Aborigines... took a while to get over that one haha :D And they could still call everyone else English, how cool is that?

If pituri was ashed etc at the source before transport (don't know that much about it to be honest, technical detail wise)... might it be some kind of preservative agent with other side effects on the plant matter? Keep bugs out of it maybe, something like that. Probably a crap idea, dunno. But I've been told that some fruits were brushed with fine ash before transport or storage in holes etc. Not that weird when you look at some of the scary crap a box of tomatos is pumped with at every step of the process. Least they weren't irradiating things...although...heard a thing about ppl in chernobyl getting constantly dosed with rads from using wood from the forests for heating, then putting the ashes on the garden.Too stupid ATM the think much more about that.Free radicals blabla.Anyone?

Re: cultivation.. sorry Torsten thought you meant plantlife in general. Growing anything in an arid area is a bastard even local stuff as it basically knows what its doing and it's like teaching your nana to sucks eggs, it gets grumpy to spite you But yeah, find the right little niche and you might be able to jump the gun so to speak, maybe just to the extent of covering fallen beans a little more than nature already had..though if you overdo it, it will use all the water in the lens of the dune and they'd all die...maybe it was trialled and found to be too much of a pain in the bum... being greedy is quickly educational, with nature.

thats it for me, off to explain why I was violently ill

happy huntin n gatherin

GD

[Anodyne]

Husk, I'd like to settle this too, but, despite reading your last post 3 times, I can't understand exactly how I've given offence. As I tried to explain in my last post I didn't call anyone "white", I simply meant non-aboriginal, and thought this would be conveyed by the context. But it was probably a poor choice of words, and I'll apologise anyway if it'll make you happy. I didn't mean to offend anyone by my racially-descriptive terms, nor intend them in any racist way. C'mon, some of my best friends are racists!

haha yes u found me out i want to be yr idea of an 'indigenous australian' so i can sell my 'knowledge' or their non-existant(seemingly) DMT use and make a name for myself. let me say yr sooooo far from wrong.

Umm...what are you talking about? You've seriously misunderstood something I've said, although I'm struggling to imagine what. I wasn't suggesting that anyone was trying to exploit aboriginal cultures for any kind of personal gain, I just meant that, generally, some aspects of other cultures are secret, and would not normally be shared with "outsiders" (for want of a better word ). If traditional DMT use by aborigines actually occurred, and was something that they wanted to share, wouldn't we know about it already? That we don't know about it suggests to me that either it didn't/doesn't happen, or it happens, but isn't something they want to tell "outsiders" about. Which makes prying into the issue either pointless or just rude.

And no, I don't listen to any sort of rap. Why do you ask?

We don't seem to be getting very far with this conversation (the Anodyne-Husk one, that is) - I think there's a bit of a gap in the communication. I'm happy to kiss and make up and let it rest if you are. Pax?

[vapour]

wow, thank you greendreams, everything you have shared is amazing - and much respect for the gracious way you have dealt with the negative and suspicious posts. a lot of the descendants of colonists are only just waking up to what has happened (myself included) and we are expressing our grief (or denial) in different ways - some less eloquently than others - but this is really difficult territory and black or white or whatever we're in this together and have to work out a way forward...

When I first became interested in southwest ethnobotany I was just greedy for some bush tucker, some noongar plant medicine or cool dreamtime stories. Typical wadjala, trying to grab some indig treasures to serve myself and run back to my own people. But of course the more you get into this stuff the less you're able to tell - and the less you want to tell. And I haven't gone very deep. So far I've only met a few local elders and was amazed at what they were willing to share. I know it's only the tip of the iceberg. in some families the knowledge is alive and well, especially among women. In some ways the generosity and almost incomprehensible forgiveness of some aboriginal people just knocks me down.

I've noticed that there is a tendency for west australians not to publish stuff about our most interesting psychoactive plants - and I'm sure it is because they are still used in noongar ceremonies. I won't mention species but a potent tryptamine plant is central to creation stories and is regarded as the most sacred plant in the region.

My advice for anybody interested in aboriginal plant medicines is to seek out your local elders, swallow your pride, forget your prejudices, be patient and miracles will happen...

[chilli]

Hi GreenDreams,

You're right, I'm sorry for that moment of genuine niceness, it was very late and I was in an unusually good mood. I didn't stop to think about the way my rare compliment could be interpreted as some kind of twisted psychological ploy to subtly insult you. I'll try and stick to unwarranted cynicism about human goodness from now on. I take it all back, you are a stuck-up arsehole after all.

Hopefully one with a good sense of humor...

_______________________________________

Hi Anodyne,

Why don't you and husk take it to PM instead of messing up GreenDreams' eloquent, interesting babblings with your own dull, predictable ones?

But before you do, isn't "whiteys" more of an epithet than "white"?

Oh well, at least you didn't say "white cunts"

[chilli]

Hi vapour,

I've noticed that there is a tendency for west australians not to publish stuff about our most interesting psychoactive plants - and I'm sure it is because they are still used in noongar ceremonies. I won't mention species but a potent tryptamine plant is central to creation stories and is regarded as the most sacred plant in the region.

My bullshit alarm is going off again...

Okay, I'm sure you're sworn to secrecy and all that, and so you will under no circumstances divulge the identity of this mysterious plant, but could you at least please provide some evidence of its centrality to aboriginal creation stories? Or is that Top Secret as well?

[hebrew]

edited

Edited March 22, 2007 by hebrew

[occidentalis]

Okay, I'm sure you're sworn to secrecy and all that, and so you will under no circumstances divulge the identity of this mysterious plant, but could you at least please provide some evidence of its centrality to aboriginal creation stories? Or is that Top Secret as well?

I think your bullshit detector is set a little high.

The evidence of the centrality of this plant to nyungar reality is that a well known local elder who is one of the main nyungar 'ambassadors' to white culture has said so. This man is 100% genuine, as is vapours.

[chilli]

I think your bullshit detector is set a little high.

The evidence of the centrality of this plant to nyungar reality is that a well known local elder who is one of the main nyungar 'ambassadors' to white culture has said so. This man is 100% genuine, as is vapours.

Better too high than too low IME... still waiting for that all important evidence though.

[Vertmorpheus]

Nominates Illegal for the "Easily the Funniest And Maybe the Most Warped Bastard I've Come Across For Weeks Award 2007".... that's gunna have me cracked up for the rest of the day,cheers for that :D As the Wise Guy Bob Dobbs saith "fuck em if they can't take a joke". the great thing about chronic cynicism is that you are never disappointed but occasionaly pleasantly surprised eh?And if you get nihilistic as well, it knocks that urge to do something about it all on the head, which leaves more time for sleeping...geeze we should start a Demotivational Speakers consultancy, we'd make heaps of cash we don't care about , get jaded anyway and spend it all on crack and helicopters.ya free next Friday?

Gotta wonder how a forum dedicated to being all laid back n plantlike gets so tense sometimes, are we all closet neopagans?Would explain a lot of things haha... but noone gets to see my Big Phallic Implement, it's consecrated.

Re: bullshit or otherwise... as i said in a previous, anyone that could tell, can't and won't tease ya, only people with nothing to really say bother trying to get you to think otherwise. But remember that the external "space" of many indigenous cultures around t he world has been taken over and turned upside down in a lot of ways... the inner space is the only remaining true home for a lot of people who's earthly homes have been "acquired". Then think about who you'd lend your house keys to... or who you'd tell which pot the spare set is under or which ledge they're on top of. It's not necessarily a matter of mistrust at large... just a desire to be secure in SOMETHING in an ever shifting world.Most of us have our little... retreats, one way or another...I'd get really unhappy if I found some bloke lurking in my veggie patch, flicking thru my books, or knocking cuttings off whatever just because a mate or distant relly of mine told him it'd be ok....it probably would've been ok via the proper channels, but maybe in some cases the proper channels were taken offline years ago, and even being reminded of that fact is fairly upsetting.

On the other hand, sometimes people just like to feel important, gotta feel for em I guess.

thats me for now, happy friday one n all

Wonders if Illegal is gonna thank god,parents and the Academy then burst into tears :D

GD

[chilli]

...if you get nihilistic as well, it knocks that urge to do something about it all on the head, which leaves more time for sleeping...

LOL

"...dedicated to being all laidback and plantlike..."

LMAO

[Bigred]

Awesome thread deserves a bump would love to know more about the subject as it

is part of Australia's history .

[Anodyne]

Ooh, bad memories. I'd just like to apologise for the tone of my earlier posts. I was feeling a bit harassed by DMT-messiahs, this topic got under my skin and I behaved badly. Sorry.

[Volodimeru]

I just want to ask if some of you has heard this kind of shroom called Psilocybe Caerulescens? I was reading some articles about this kind shrooms before engaging my self for the first time. Like this one from https://www.trufflemagic.com/blog/psilocybe-caerulescens/.They say that it has a very potent effect on the brain and hallucination. Unlike other shrooms this one is less intense. In one article that I've read Psilocybe Caerulescens influences the prefontral cortex thats responsible for for differentiating thoughts, consequences of actions, and social control. Magic mushroom are use on reducing the symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder and anxiety. It can also help people to quit smoking and alcohol addiction. Some studies also suggest the property of magic shrooms/truffles can be useful for cancer patients. I would really want to hear other insights regarding this kind shroom and could possible be used as an alternative medicine Thanks

[EthnoDan]

On 20/03/2007 at 10:24 PM, Torsten said:

Then there are members of the Scrophulariaceae family in WA that get you totally whacked from just a few puffs.

I know im a bit late to the chat but i cant scroll past this. I am very interested to know which plants you are talking about. 

[Humboldt]

Some great posts by Vertmorpheus.  Shame he's not about still.