Coco Fiber to the rescue!

[BlackDragon]

Heyall. Around a year ago i de-grafted my prize loph. The old myrt stock has withered away due to the parasidic action of the mature loph being on there soo long.. Heres a pic from back then when it was first de-grafted and my first attempt at repotting and trying to induce roots.

She looks nice but is almost half size in this pic, compared to what it used to be on the stock when healthy.

This attempt failed. After 3 months post cullous, not root formation was observed. I decided to remove the poor thing and bring it inside over last winter as i didnt want any unwanted nasties to creep up with the oncomming rise in humidity. It already had a little rot set in, but nothing bad at all.

I then tried to re-graft to a pachanoi, which also failed for reasons unknown, perhaps due to the harder "cork" now produced at the base. I cut off the cork and tried again, again no luck, just rejection. Obviously she didnt want to be on another stock again!

Now, back to the headline of the story I visited t st Tantra one day a while back. He mentioned to me that he has found that sick mistreated lophs do very well in coco fiber. I took it upon myself to have one last try with my now shriveled baby. I used premium coco fiber, with about 20% perilte, moistened and chucked in the pot. Dropped the loph on top, and gave it a little twist to snuggle her into her new bed. Only around 10mm deep. I have kept the water up once or twice a week, barely letting her dry out.

Heres the result:

Nice and fat and rooting like rabbits!! Im soooo happy . After many attempts to generate roots, the coco fiber mix worked a treat!! Thanks a million tantra, you saved my prize baby!(but i love em all the same..)

You can see she is taking on water and putting on size once again.

Hopefully this helps someone out there having similar problems, and with the increase of peri grafts lately, im sure there will be plenty or de-grafting going on in the near future!!

Bd.

[Dodie]

Nooooiiiiice..

So how long did it take with the coco to form roots? Heard lophs generally take MONTHS to root after de-grafting..

Whats the diameter on that baby? Lophs always seem to look way bigger in pics to me..

[PD.]

Excellent.

Thanks heaps BD, saved me alot of wasted time and possibly saved a few lives also.

Cheers

[BlackDragon]

After the final callous, its taken only a matter of 4-6 weeks to generate the first roots in coco, I was quite supprised when i checked it, tried to pull it up and outa the pot and pulled a whole heap of rootball out with it! Yeah!! Oh yeah, its got roots!! Seem em?!! ROOTS!!!!!!!!! Woooo hoooo!! Since then, coco has produced the quickest growing roots i have seen so far. Gotta love coco.

Hopefully she will re-flower this year sometime, then i know shes happy!

Size at the mo, is just over 80mm X 45mm above the coco. I expect another 20mm or so when shes fully rehydrated. Pups are very plump now also.

Cheers Pd and dodie, Im hoping i can save a few people all the heartache i went thru to get to this stage, thanks to tantra for the inital idea too.

Edited January 31, 2007 by BlackDragon

[-YT-]

Amazing Loph BD

Coco Coir really is great stuff very economical and the plants seem to thrive in it.

After visiting Tantra a while back and mentioned his coir use i changed to a mix of 70% coir 30% cheap

soil and 10% Organic poo mix for pritty much 100% of my garden and Everything has taken to it and

looks amazingly green and vibrant for this time of year

Cacti especially cuts seem to root quicker with well developed root systems compared with cactus mix etc

Not too sure of the nutrient composition of coco coir but liquid and slow relaease ferts work well, i think

its because its such a light soft medium that it allows good airation of the roots is fairly free draining

and doesnt seem to hold water too long. Interested to hear others success in using this medium in

there garden.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Young Tripper

[SaBReT00tH]

awesome!! I've used a lot of this stuff for my repotting also. Are you guys worried about the coco fibre getting wet in winter and making the cacti cold though? Or the mass salt content in the fibre causing problems for the plants?

[BlackDragon]

Are you guys worried about the coco fibre getting wet in winter and making the cacti cold though?

No not really, my collection is in a garden shed with that old crappy half see thru fiberglass roofing. Temps remain reasonably constant in there, and the loph in picture has planty or friends in there to keep her warm in the winter months, huddled together. No extra water is available unless i water them. Also as the coco darins so much better, if there is a slight chance of overwatering, you will have less time for 'wet feet' to be a problem. Aslo the extra available oxygen/air will reduce rot chances. I wouldnt recomend it if your lophs are out in full weather, full rain ect but i dont think too many collections are out in full weather exposure.

Or the mass salt content in the fibre causing problems for the plants?

No salts here, Im using Canna coco(best hyro stuff on the market, and ive treid 4 types now), premium stuff compared to that crap pressed into brick for 2 bucks. Virtually no salt and its been pretreated to prevent any nutrient lock-up that can happen almost always with crappy cheap coco. They all may be de-husked in srilanka or india, but the following decomp in FRESH and constantly changing water, not by brackish or salt water, which is where your salt and lockout problems start happening. You pay for what you get. Also there is NO fiber DUST at all in canna coco, you can play with it all day and get no dust under your nails or flying into your lungs. So hygenic!

[t st tantra]

my theory is that 'organics' has the wrong emphasis.

the important thing is to have a good organic buffer within which

chemical interactions can take place.

i use cocopeat and seaweed ext ,then throw the req amt of cheap ferts at it.

i've found this allows growth to occur at higher and lower temps than usual.

have experimented slowly with the coco/loph thing for a couple years and had no probs yet.

i think the peat sucks in the water and leaves air in the interspaces, so the roots should not rot.

t s t .

[AndyAmine.]

One thing you may want to be careful of is root mealy, coco coir provides the perfect environment for them... particularly if you keep the mix dry for prolonged periods...

[mu!]

Mmmm, nice loph

How much time has it spent on and off the main graft? (how old is it?)

[BlackDragon]

Thanks for the mealy tip Andy, I have never seen root mealy bugs down here, only mealy on badly cared for palms. Luckily none on my property. The coco was only really to try to get some roots generating, Im looking at transplanting soonish, hopefully making use of the last few months of warm weather. I would hate to see mealies destroy it now!

I generally only grow from seed. Im paranoid about introducing nasties to my collection . This one was germinated around 98-99, so around 9 years. First 2-3 years as a seedling, the next 4 years (roughly) on myrtillo stock, the last year on myrt stock was useless, virtually no growth at all (i hadnt noticed it had almost consumed the myrt). Degrafted back in sept/oct 05. Failed root(see first pic). Overwintered inside last winter 06, and tried the pach graft etc etc....

Cant wait till next late next summer, then i should have my full baby back!!

[Ace]

Gotta say, you've done exceptionally well with this loph BD! I sincerelly hope she roots like a cheap hooker for you (i.e. nice and easy ) lol. I have had a look around for coir and I can only find long strands of coco fibre (at Kmart) which I would think would be useless for this application. It appears to be the stuff they line those little baskets with for flowers and such. I should probably check my local hydro store, as they might stock the better stuff.

Congrats BD!

[The Dude]

my theory is that 'organics' has the wrong emphasis.

the important thing is to have a good organic buffer within which

chemical interactions can take place.

i use cocopeat and seaweed ext ,then throw the req amt of cheap ferts at it.

i've found this allows growth to occur at higher and lower temps than usual.

I've got a brick of dried peat moss, and was thinking of gettign a brick of coco coir but might go the top quality hydro stuff instead. I think South Australia has more hydroponic stores than supermarkets so it shouldn't be a problem finding it. Perlite, coarse sand and potting mix. Anyone got good ideas for ratios here? I want to have a mix for columnar cacti + pereskiopsis and opuntia and other random cacti and another for germinating loph seeds. any suggestions would be good. I don't know if I should post this here or in teh FAQ thread as that just seems to link to other relevant threads, such as this one.

Edited October 15, 2007 by El Duderino

[Monk]

I use coco coir in all my plant mixes, but at different combinations for different types of plants. I think the relative dryness of your enviro determines the mix you want to use as well. Sounds like these guys are using much more coco than I do, but I'm coastal/subtropical with pretty mild temps and humidity. For this enviro, with my cacti, I make a base mix of 50% coco/25% pumice(won't float like perlite-aah!)/25% silica sand. This base mix I use for rooting cuttings and as a pythium-free seed topper. Then, for growth, I add about 20% of the mix worth of compost with some slow release organic/inorganic ferts. Things to note about coco: even when saturated with water, it is ~20% air, preventing much rot; Canna Coco boasts that their coir contains the fungus Trichoderma harzianum. I think all coco has this beneficial, anti-fungal fungus, but they just advertise it. Oh, and thanks to Andy for mentioning the root mealy thing. I didn't know that and will keep my eyes open for those sneaky bastards

EDIT: Goddamn that's a beautiful plant

Edited October 15, 2007 by FeloniousMonk

[BlackDragon]

+UPDATE 5/12/07

Upon returning home the other day, i finally got around to potting up my loph collection. Time to check out the ol goldie that was rootin away in the coco. Well, it has far exceeded my expectations Yippeeee!!

Heres a pic after i had washed off the coco, and yes, Andy was right, i let it stay dry for longer periods toward the end of winter, and due to contamination of my stock from a bunnings scop, i relluctantly bow my head and admit i now have minor root mealy problems sob sob.. Very small ammount but they have arrived. Upon checking/repotting the whole collection i would say 80% had minor infestation. Washed and treated the roots with mild neem emulsion. Hope thats enough... Makes sense as they havent put on much growth in the last two years and i couldnt pin it down to anything else..

Heres a close up

Nice, fat and fine healthy roots!!

The main point of this post was to demonstrate the potential that coco coir has for quick, healthy root production formation on de-grafted lophs. I will definatly use this method again, and i do recommend it. I would keep the coco moist at all times as there is very minimal fungal or rot problems associated, perhaps adding some neem granules to the coco to co-prevent meally issues.

Hope that helps everyone

Now shes nice and healthy/plump and pumpin out pups.

And yep, she has flowered twice in a few weeks

BD

Edited December 7, 2007 by BlackDragon

[-YT-]

Top stuff BD

Would it be possible to add neem graunules or powder to a watering can and water it through the cacti/pot? im talking more so of trichos here

[BlackDragon]

Cheers YT

Yeah thats possible(i havent done it yet) as long as you make some rivlets or tunnels for the granules to go down thru. Maybe use a blunted knitting needle or big skewer to poke long holes thru the soil and water the granules thru. Try not to damage the root too much. I just noticed a bag of coco out the back that contains neem. Its doesnt say granules or wha they use, its called "El Dorado" in a brown bag. The bag has disintergrated so i cant read the ingredients.

Has anyone found a source of neem granules/powder in aus? If so can you please link it to this post

Bd.

Edited December 7, 2007 by BlackDragon

[bluethumb]

I am new here but have had severe difficulty rooting Lophophora. My current project is to root them under dual 96w p.c. fluorescent lights that were designed for reef keeping applications (coral growing). I have given all of the cuts a sulfur flour dusting and they are about 6" from the light source. They maintain a warm environment, but roots are very few and far between, almost like bumps than anything else. I am on my third week, so I'll give your method a go and share my successes. Thanks for the tip.

[spunwhirllin]

nothing here,go coco coir.

Edited December 8, 2007 by spunwhirllin

[BlackDragon]

Its easy for some, not for others, thats the point of this thread

I would not recommend that anyone put a loph out in full sun in intense heat at all, unless it has come from exactly the same conditions in the first place. Thats just asking for all types of trouble like severe sunburn to start with. If i was to move my plants into full intense sun/heat now i would loose the lot. Not too wise in this case, considering most lophs are somehwhat protected from full harsh sun, as they are in nature by the mesquite type bushes.

Im interested in hearing your technique spunwhirlin, perhaps you should start another thread with your various mediums and watering schedules, as this thread is primarily focused on coco coir for those that have had trouble rooting in other mediums.

[Kenny Blister]

Hi BD

Just wanted to suggest using a biological control for your root mealy. Cryptolaemus montrouzieri would be effective on mealy bugs living outside the soil, but probably isn't going to work for you. Hypoaspis might be effective and Steinernema nematodes may target the mealy bugs as well. Could be worth looking into.

[t st tantra]

Cheers YT

Yeah thats possible(i havent done it yet) as long as you make some rivlets or tunnels for the granules to go down thru. Maybe use a blunted knitting needle or big skewer to poke long holes thru the soil and water the granules thru. Try not to damage the root too much. I just noticed a bag of coco out the back that contains neem. Its doesnt say granules or wha they use, its called "El Dorado" in a brown bag. The bag has disintergrated so i cant read the ingredients.

Has anyone found a source of neem granules/powder in aus? If so can you please link it to this post

Bd.

the local street tree which is a melia sp can apparently be used for insecticidal[huh?] uses but is not suited for use by humans.one grows accross the road from me.

i'll try putting the seeds in pots and some fresh dried leaf in other pots......i have mealy bugs too.

every now and then i'll find a loph on the ground,pulled from the pot ,apparently cleaned neatly of mealy bugs,mice?

t s t .

[bluethumb]

works wonders!!!!! thank you

Edited December 16, 2007 by bluethumb

[watertrade]

Go Coco fiber - SAme story as before, I had a Loph not doing anything since October ( actualy the plant Teo sent me to cast for the grafting comp trophy)

- I tried the Coco fiber and 5 days later. roots.

BAM!

[Raymondo]

Very cool.