Would you laugh at me....

[foolsbreath]

And it took place when i layed eyes on the most amaizing beautiful portrait of him ive ever seen. Ive never connected with/felt a piece of artwork like i just did with this painting... and it all unfolded, and it all makes sense to me now, and i feel nothing but love and compassion for the guy!

Sounds like you've fallen for someones interpretation of jesus, dangerous waters, as any religion is based on someones interpretation of jesus and the surrounding teachings of his peers and lesser mortals

The only truly unconditional love is the Christian type of love.

Pity it isn't actually practised. I have taken my daughter to a couple of christian play groups, thinking they would be the most welcoming and friendly people, providing a good loving atmosphere for my kid, but they are not, wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't talk to my daughter, wouldn't interact and even made rude remarks about the way I dressed my kid, bigots!

[_e_]

If you don't 'adhere' to any of those ways of understanding then you are simply inventing a new way - and that in essence makes the concept of "Jesus" meaningless. You may as well call him "Bill" and draw your own portrait and create a whole new faith system around it.

Umm sorry, but i feel this is way off the mark!

there is no need to adhere to any contemporary understanding of christ to 'get the message', in a way i would say the message has been distorted and tainted by organised state based heirarchial religion.

There is a huge difference between religion and spirituality, and in a way adhering to organised religion deprives oneself of true spontaneous spiritual/mystic experience.

To suggest that my experience of christ consciousness outside the the sphere of religion is 'meaningless' is just absurd!

Just because i have experienced (on numerous times) and finally come to a wholistic personal interpretation and integration of 'the message of christ', doesnt mean it is anything 'new' or 'different'. In fact, i would suggest that it is in fact as old as the presence of the christ mythos within the time frame of humanity.

I have experienced these particular insights via the 'being' of christ... Im not quite sure where Bill comes into it, but why create a dual persona if these lessons already exist in an entirity already for all beings to access.

Maybe if u want to creat a billianism/billianity/church of bill, we could look at the modern revelatory teachings of bill hicks?

I think the real issue is whether you believe in God or not, and if you do then the only way that makes sense is to be a rational monotheist. Images, historical information, rituals are all the inventions of men.

Sorry, but i really dont understand how you can presume to know more about my spiritual understanding of the cosmos, and my quandry within it, then i ?

Rational monotheist? So your ASSUMING that the only rational explanation of and format for christ consciousness is monotheism?

My understanding is a little different, GOD/ELOHIM/ELI/ALAH is the father, the seed of creation, the cosmos.

GAIA/MINERVA e.t.c is the mother, the womb and the earth.

We are the children, the manifestation of the union of cosmos with 'being', spirit and flesh entwined.

However, this is all within OUR UNIVERSE, our particular cosmos.... im not naieve enough to assume that we and all that we can ever imagine/explore/experience is the wholeness of existance.

I would say that there is a hellof a lot more out there then god and gaia, earth and humans... Our cosmos in its entirity is most likely a lot smaller and more insignificant in relation to the vastness of existancein in its entirity.... however in MY mind, that doesnt detract fromt he sacredness and importance of every breath though and action of us wee little humans, because it is all combined entwined and at one in some way shape or form.

Discard all the rubbish including any pre or post conceived ideas of "Jesus" which are irrelevant to your life ultimately.

So your telling me my new found understanding is 'irrelevent to my life' ? it is the affirmation of all i have ever thought/felt/heard or been taught about jesus... To conceive a notion of jesus is very very relevent to me in this particular time of my being.

I think its more "discard any pre or post conceived notions about the limitations and implications of the experiencing and expression of christ and his message"

Embrace God and monotheism but be able to justify and verify what you believe.

Umm sorry, what? Your assumming you have to be monotheistic to embrace god? your assumming i hadnt already embraced god a long time before my understanding of christ and his message came to fruition?

And please, oh please tell me... Whom must i justify and varify my beliefs too, and why?

This is the message im getting, no one ought to justify or varify their beliefs if they are not harming anyone else.... Love needs no justification or varification...

i was laughin at you before you found him.

Thankyou! I really feel that laughter is the active expression of understanding. And in such, u must have understood me more in the past, and now, then i ever could have hoped for.

So, in unisen, we laugh!

PLANT LOVE!

[_e_]

Sounds like you've fallen for someones interpretation of jesus, dangerous waters, as any religion is based on someones interpretation of jesus and the surrounding teachings of his peers and lesser mortals

I really havent fallen for anyones interpretation of jesus... It was just that this particular painting was filled with so much love and compassion that it really opened me up and allowed for all my experiences to coalesce in that moment.. Allowing for a fruition of the wholeness of my connection with the christ archetype.

It wasnt the physicality of it at all.. it was completely insignificant that he was white skinned, male and bearded in this particular representation.... It was the beauty and compassion and love and forgiveness that was represented by the painting in its entirity... and its position in my field of being at that particular moment.

And this whole 'lesser mortals' thing is what im trying to dispell.. We are all the children of the god and the goddess, we are all, by birthright, divine beings. Every breath is sacred.

We all have the CAPACITY to reach the same level of consciousness as jesus. It is our birthright.

Placing him on a pedestool and worhsipping plastic idles is really 'evil' in the sense that it is 'antichrist' as it detracts from the true message that we are all sacred and ALL THERE IS, IS LOVE.

Edited December 8, 2006 by ({E})

[gomaos]

The only truly unconditional love is the Christian type of love.

I'll restrain myself from poking fun at the large condition you put on the unconditional but I wonder, how do you figure its only christians that can develop this virtue?

yep I find that very arrogant and narrow-minded, "only truely christian love" is unconditional.

Furthermore, there are good aspects of religion, as Minerval mentioned, but to me that's "spirituality" and has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Religion is an evil tool used by governments and churches to control the minds of people up to the finest nuance of free thinking...

telling people how and when and if to make love to each other is just ridiculous.

But that's what most religions do.

For that they should go to hell (that's if there was one.)

There's more stuff like that but I'm not willing to carry on about it.

it should be obvious to most intelligent people.

Edited December 8, 2006 by gomaos

[Μορφέας]

telling people how and when and if to make love to each other is just ridiculous.

But that's what most religions do.

For that they should go to hell (that's if there was one.)

If everyone controled their urges and listened to this then aids would not be killing millions and millions and millions and millions and millions

along with the rest of the STDs that plauge society.

[foolsbreath]

And this whole 'lesser mortals' thing is what im trying to dispell.. We are all the children of the god and the goddess, we are all, by birthright, divine beings. Every breath is sacred.

We all have the CAPACITY to reach the same level of consciousness as jesus. It is our birthright.

Placing him on a pedestool and worhsipping plastic idles is really 'evil' in the sense that it is 'antichrist' as it detracts from the true message that we are all sacred and ALL THERE IS, IS LOVE.

Well put, this is where its at, If you removed jesus from this statement and said any being, I would be 100% in agreement. To attain such levels of consciousness I believe the discipline of religion needs to be broken. Enlightenment transcends religion, I'm sure Jesus didn't expect to be worshiped the way he is, He probably thinks its all gone pretty pear shaped bu now!

[gomaos]

Aids most likely got developed by the US's evil Cia and/or FBI agencies (which are utterly evil because they are controlling the world. They are responsible for making the most valuable medical herb on earth-cannabis- illegal, they are also responsible for Aids.

Not man's urges and drives.

And we don't need religion to tell us where to stick our penises or what to put in our vaginas.

[sobriquet]

yep, the only condition im placing on unconditional love, is that its truly unconditional.

unconditional love, conditional to unconditionality.

I think you missed the point of the comment about this. You stated unambiguously that the ONLY type of unconditional love was CHRISTIAN TYPE.

"The only truly unconditional love is the Christian type of love"

That in case you are unclear about it is a condition.

'there are many many paths to the heart, never one the same, but all with the same outcome.... home'

(roughly paraphrased from rumi)

The concept of "Christ" is an invented one. Jesus was the man from Nazareth, a Nazarene. He never referred to himself as "Christ" which was an invention of Paul who transmogrified a man's humble teachings into a doctrine and system.

Jesus the man would find the concept of "Christ" and the horribly mutated teachings surrounding it alien if he lived today.

[_e_]

I think you missed the point of the comment about this. You stated unambiguously that the ONLY type of unconditional love was CHRISTIAN TYPE.

"The only truly unconditional love is the Christian type of love"

i never unambiguously implied that the ONLY type of unconditionall love was CHRISTIAN.

The quote you are using is from another member...

The concept of "Christ" is an invented one. Jesus was the man from Nazareth, a Nazarene. He never referred to himself as "Christ" which was an invention of Paul who transmogrified a man's humble teachings into a doctrine and system.

Jesus the man would find the concept of "Christ" and the horribly mutated teachings surrounding it alien if he lived today.

I am speaking from is a place in myself that resonants with the essence of his being and teachings... nothing more. names and historical contexts for names asside.

In that place there is nothing invented about the 'being' that is jesus, and the 'experience' that is christ consciousness (and vice versa).. like you said, disregard all the historical context and possibilities for mis-representation and go right to THE HEART of the matter... and thats all that matter.

It really doesnt need to be made so complicated, or pushed into the sordid details and nitty gritties....

Edited December 8, 2006 by ({E})

[gomaos]

Most likely jesus was a revolutinary (that's if he existed at all) who had the guts to stand up and preach against the all-powerful roman empire, which was endlessly greedy for ever more power and new countries to govern (equal to what Hitler had in mind with his "1000-year-empire" (which turned out to be a 12 year nightmare, what an idiot Hitler was, or equal to what the US are doing right now).

So if he existed, and knew what "religion" is doing to his legacy, he will most likely turn around in his grave, not just once but continuously. Please give him some rest and peace. religion, leave jesus alone!

[sobriquet]

Most likely jesus was a revolutinary (that's if he existed at all) who had the guts to stand up and preach against the all-powerful roman empire, which was endlessly greedy for ever more power and new countries to govern (equal to what Hitler had in mind with his "1000-year-empire" (which turned out to be a 12 year nightmare, what an idiot Hitler was, or equal to what the US are doing right now).

So if he existed, and knew what "religion" is doing to his legacy, he will most likely turn around in his grave, not just once but continuously. Please give him some rest and peace. religion, leave jesus alone!

Gomaos, I have always tried to stress this to all types of believers in organised religion whatever it may be. These messengers have had as their mission to destroy organised religion and religious men. To bring the message of individual responsibility to people and to allow them to experience consciousness of God without the interference of others.

Jesus wasn't sent against the Roman Empire, but towards the Jews who had created an organised religion around the teachings of Moses. A religion which required payment of religious men in order to attain some sort of ticket into a paradise of the religious men's minds. Jesus' mission was to destroy the organised religion of the time.

Same for Islam. Mohammad's mission was to destroy the corruption created by the organised religion of his place and time. The Arabs recognised a single God but had hundreds of lesser deities to which people could make sacrifices and offer money. This served only to enrich the religious men. Mohammad's duty was to destroy organised religion. Not to create another one.

I've read the Bible and the Koran and other religious books and to me, the Koran actually reads like an anarchist's manifesto! It does not prescribe a "religion" at all and in fact says that religion is the culprit in all divisions of humanity.

All great men have been iconoclasts and have swept away the rubbish of organised religion which enslaves men, time and time again. But people surrender their effort, money and souls to these corrupt men of 'religion'.

"They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified Jesus, the son of Mary. They were all commanded to serve only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners." Koran 9:31

So called "religious leaders" and other men who purport to lead others are the real criminals. The verse above damns all forms of religion including the one called "Islam" toady and prescribes a personal resonsibility to the God.

http://www.aididsafar.com/

[ballzac]

I'll restrain myself from poking fun at the large condition you put on the unconditional but I wonder, how do you figure its only christians that can develop this virtue?

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I never said that only Christians can develop that virtue. In fact, I think that very few do, and I believe that I have met many athiests/agnostics/buddhists, who are more developed in this area than most Christians I have met. Personally my understanding of reality agrees more with the teachings of Buddha than of those of Jesus Christ anyway.

The point I was making, is that the only sort of love that is truly unconditional, is the same type of love that was purportedly preached by Jesus Christ. Any love that does not encompass all humanity and everything else (to love only humans, or only living things would itself put a condition on the love), is conditional.

I used the concept of the teachings of Jesus Christ as an example of true unconditional love, hence the inclusion of the word 'type'. Obviously I was not clear, as everyone seems to misunderstand what I was saying.

[Machine Elf]

I am speaking from is a place in myself that resonants with the essence of his being and teachings... nothing more. names and historical contexts for names asside.

In that place there is nothing invented about the 'being' that is jesus, and the 'experience' that is christ consciousness (and vice versa).. like you said, disregard all the historical context and possibilities for mis-representation and go right to THE HEART of the matter... and thats all that matter.

Hi E,

Well, his teachings really are part of an historical context. Those teachings have come through many filters, from Saul/Paul's religion through to Gnostic thinking. Most texts were written centuries after him, and so went through the particular filter of the writer of that time, largely separated from any particular being called 'Jesus' (and you can see the result of it in the many faces of Jesus in different gospels - from warlike to peace loving). And any particular emotions you felt as a result of the Jesus print, came through the filter of that particular painter and what he thought Jesus was. You are more identifying with that painter's ideal of what a deity should be than anything.

Which brings me to the point - I'm curious as to why you need to identify with an externalised deity when as you rightly point out, we are all divine/gods. I agree with much of what you're saying, but any reliance on a Jesus, a Mohammed, or a Bill Hicks as some sort of 'idol', is completely mistaken in my opinion. However, it's obviously a human trait...everybody has their heroes/idols who they look up to for guidance, or as something to aspire to. But the point in reaching for godliness, I think, is to evolve out of that weakness.

All my opinion of course.

;)

Belf.

p.s. Did you sort out your air travel problems?

[_e_]

I suppose for me the whole externalised/deified spiritual interactions are really just an exploration of the aspects of our self (both individual and collective) that are activated/resonate with the particular deity, at a particular time, for whatever means and significance.

For me jesus has been a potent archetype for exploring the parts of humanity that are selfless, compassionate, forgiving, understanding and most of all the embodiment of unconditional love.

Parts of the human being that really need some attention collectively at present.

In realising those parts of myself, and therefore humanity, the experience yesterday was like a completion of some kind of process, or the arrival at a point on my path where i felt that i had reached a place of particular significance and understanding.

I have previously come to the realisation of 'the god that we all are', and yesterday was like an activation of the part of me that is Jesus.

The painting was just a 'prop' if you may, in creating the painting, the artist created its capacity to touch people in such a way...

but any reliance on a Jesus, a Mohammed, or a Bill Hicks as some sort of 'idol', is completely mistaken in my opinion

I agree to a point in that there shouldnt be a 'reliance', however, the acceptance and expression of the importance of the message these people have shared with the rest of humanity is (in my mind) quite important in the unfolding of the future of humanity.

Edited December 9, 2006 by ({E})

[The Dude]

So I've encountered Jesus about.. thrice. I kinda saw the archetype of jesus as being a fully grown mature wise person, that is the goal that i will endlessly pursue. And he seemed very content and humble.. i guess it's just the epitome of where i'd want to be.. at peace with myself and my environment.

So to me Jesus Christ exists in the noosphere or the realm of archetypes or ideas. The symbol has been created and its presence made apparent in our collective consciousness. I do not see y one should not relate to this .. spirit.. idea, concept, whatever it is floating in the aether that makes contact with us occasionally...

In any case The teachings of jesus are the same as many other religious figures and i guess the archetype transcends the religious/cultural divisions with their different names and whatnot, however the way in which "christ consciousness" is experienced or the guise it takes i guess depends on.. what yer lookin at, a picture of Jesus Christ, or Krishna or whatever... OR what ideas are in your head at the time.

I much prefer Kali encounters tho.. or any other label/symbol of the same underlying archetype

C'mon can paintings of jesus compete with this?

http://spectraleyes.com/albums/artworx/kali_ma.jpg

..incidently, i found this really funky symetrical pattern generator thing

its real fun to play round with...

link

Edited January 8, 2007 by El Duderino

[gomaos]

wow what a cool pic of Kali, just about almost exactly as i imagined her. Actually, to me she would have appeared heavier, more monstrous.

Reminds me of a night, approx 20 years ago, when I sat alone on a tropical beach, in fact it was Mossman beach oppposite Port Douglas beach in North Queensland.

My mind was full of troubles, doubts and depair because I was breaking up with my first wife, who I have 2 Children with.

I wasn't stoned (didn't have any) or drunk, just tried to sit there and center myself and meditate, but I got this strong impression, that there, in the darkness, was Kali, advancing to me, trying to "get" me.

I tried to stay and sit, but after a while the fear got so strong, I actually ran away.

About experiencing Jesus, yes I experienced him full scale in visions when I was around 1o years old.

It was beautiful and gruesome at the same time. A very deep experience, but a turnoff.

And no, jesus-paintings can't compete with that pic at all. It says just about everything about life, the Universe and...everything... (sorry been watching too many hitchhikers guides lately)

Jesus wasn't sent against the Roman Empire, but towards the Jews who had created an organised religion around the teachings of Moses.

WHO sent him?

Mohammad's mission was to destroy the corruption created by the organised religion of his place and time.

WHO gave Mohammed his mission?

the Koran actually reads like an anarchist's manifesto!

"They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified Jesus, the son of Mary. They were all commanded to serve only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners." Koran 9:31

sorry, no offence intended, but I remember (from when the catholic Priest at School hammered it into my brain) several passages of the Bible who read just about exactly the same as that.

The verse above damns all forms of religion including the one called "Islam" toady and prescribes a personal resonsibility to the God.

What God? The Commonwealth God?

Edited December 9, 2006 by gomaos

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

I have seen kali.

She appear to me a few years ago,

her skin was dark and scaled or jeweld.

Her energy felt weird, demomic in a way.. she was repulsive but at the same time very very seductive.

[Lono]

Hey ({E}),

Sorry if Friday's post was a bit narky mate, it had been a long week.

I think I see now what you were getting at.

You have come to understand the moral metaphor the jesus story represents right?

That he is an example to/of everyman. And that his horrific death and piety/generosity/grace in spite of being subjected to the worst privations and betrayals and being forsaken by the world/people he unconditionaly swore to love and protect, is a lesson about the standard to which all humans should hold themselves.

Fine mate, the world is better for having another person willing to base their life on such principles. But I don't understand why now that the lesson has been learned that "Jesus" the, character/historical figure/myth is of any use to you.

I mean you don't ask "who is it?" before answering the door, and expect there to be a big bad wolf on the other side.

In the same way as nursery rhymes, the stories of the bible are used to illustrate universal principles of morality or general rules for good/safe living. It seems its only when people start taking the details of the stories too seriously that they forget the basic purpose of them in the first place.

But hey man, as long as you don't find yourself becoming too dogmatic or thinking that you are on a holy mission you'll probably be okay. Plus I hear the guy builds a mean hotrod

[wandjina]

I've never really had a Jesus thing, but I am rather fond of Mary...or rather, my interpreation of what she represents.

Aesthetically speaking, I prefer 'Our Lady of Guadalupe'...she looks a little more rustic I spose, and not so idealised/airbrushed.

I've mentioned to a few recovering catholics over the years that i love Mary...and invariably they are horrified.

I wasn't raised with religion, especially not the strict kind, and hence I do not undertand what Mary may represent to other ppl....

Anyways, the point is, my notion of Mary seems to have more to do with me than it does with who she may have been, or what she 'really' is/represents.

To me she is a vestige of the pagan Goddess, protector of children, counsel of women, compassionate 'mother' etc....more a Kwan Yin type figure (feminine form), or a Sea Goddess (Yemanja -catholosised Orisha) than the virginal mother of Jesus.

[nil]

I've never really had a Jesus thing, but I am rather fond of Mary...or rather, my interpreation of what she represents.

Aesthetically speaking, I prefer 'Our Lady of Guadalupe'...she looks a little more rustic I spose, and not so idealised/airbrushed.

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

[wandjina]

ha!! cool tat EN....she rocks....

yemanja (cathologised orisha Brasilian) is pretty groovy too

d'oh

Edited January 6, 2007 by wandjina

[nil]

i had an our lady of regla bowling pin at one point in time. she was black and decorated in ornate byzantine style gown, etc. all on a standard sized bowling pin!! i used to collect mary iconographs ;). when i grow up and get the funds i'm going to get lilith on the left arm to balance the guadalupe.

[Ace]

I'd just like to announce I have found Jesus recently too:

Jesus.bmp

Jesus.bmp

Jesus.bmp

[shruman]

Yeah i met jesus once, he offered to wash my feet so I said why not but when he started caressing my thighs & sucking my toes I told him I dont go in for those backdoor shananigans, he replied I know a good hooker named Mary Mag I could set u up so I slapped him and he turned his other cheek & said please sir may I have another so I got the hell out of there.

[calyx]

I'd just like to announce I have found Jesus recently too:

PMSL, is that an original pic or was it touched up?

If a dodgy toasted cheese sandwich of Mary got $28,000 on ebay your dog has to be worth half a million.