Do we want and/or need religion?

[The Dude]

Only thru breeding hatred of 'evil bastards' do we breed such evil bastards amongs us 'good folk'. The sad and pathetic truth of human nature is that when we're fucked over, we feel it our RIGHT to fuck over the world. we are Owed the world.

Roman Empire, "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? "

-buahaha love that quote, but yeah sure enough no1 likes an evil empire enforcing its tyranical rule over you. And there was this small resistance group practicing this funky thing called "christianity". And like any resistance one must stamp it out. So they got fair persecuted, fed to lions publically and all that, as an example of what will happen to any dissidents i guess. But public martydom only strengthens the resistance force, y are people so happy to die for their cause? free access to heaven for 1.

When the resistance grew phenomenally there was a very sneaky transition of leadership.. of this resistance religion. ...was it Constantine that suddenly 'converted' to christianity?

So anyhow the orthodox christian leaders felt free to continue in the tradition carying out 'punishment' by commiting the same kind of barbaric acts that had been done to them beforehand -now with the full power and support of the roman empire. All in the spirit of enforcing out some global justice, we got fucked over, now we fuck you over... right.

The thing with ones sense of justice is it overrides your sense of what is best for you. By being violent we do hurt ourselves (IMHO)

So then we have the whole history of the Roman Catholic Church.. it ain't pretty.

The Jews got fucked over pretty badly in WW2, it now seems they feel the right to commit the same kind of state terrorism.

Hate breeds Hate.

um back to good evil... i would say there is a force of darkness and of light, as the names suggest they either illuminate or occlude ...human consciousness so simply put, ignorance is evil, knowledge is good.

hagakure, your murdering babies may be in a fully lucid state where u are aware of your brains malfunction. That is you are not ignorant of it. erm.. if we truly are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively (IF) then you seem to be ignorant of the fact you are hurting yourself by killing babies, unless of course you are a masochist in which case, u enjoy hurting yourself.

Reptyle, I guess you could be agressive without being hateful. Hate is what causes suffering really. I'm thinking with the purpose of self defense, your not really hating the attacker though... he's just misguided

Edited October 30, 2006 by El Duderino

[-YT-]

"Only thru breeding hatred of 'evil bastards' do we breed such evil bastards amongs us 'good folk'. The sad and pathetic truth of human nature is that when we're fucked over, we feel it our RIGHT to fuck over the world. we are Owed the world."

True people do feel its their right to do whatever, reeks of self importance and ignorance, we arent owed shit really heh heh its our responsibilities as individuals to take stock for being alive in this amazing world at this specific time, ppl feel offened and Righteous they think why ME.. they cant do this to ME.. im ME! lol like social status, money, there affront to others, blah blah etc makes them all this and that. Arent we all equal in this world every man and women alike regardless of all that shite.

I do like some of the points of Buddhism like the discipline and challenge of training ones mind to be at its peak in regards to ones actions and dealings with the world and others.

[Greeny]

My personal opinion on religion:

If you need to justify your actions over emotions

religion will do it

If you need to conform in this world

religion will do it

If you need someone to tell you it will be all good one day

religion will do it

If you need to give money to feel safe

Hire a bodyguard

[narayan]

^

[The Dude]

Anyway to answer the question... I don't need a 'religion' ... um now when I say religion, I incluide scientific reductionism into this.. Any sort of belief system that sets up rigid rules and regulations... such as the assumption that if it is unproven by science it is likely untrue... Darwinism is a belief system...

In fact yeah I dont like where science has taken us.. in terms of philosophy. It really does only seem to validate, the real, the physical, the material.. and throws away any notions of the metaphysical mind/matter relationships..

I value science, for it's scientific method. And don't really believe in philosophy or theology trying to be passed off as science.. however I don't like science as a philosophy either, and it seems many people who so highly value logic and reasoning and all that fall in love with this... thing, and then discard their sense of logic when they Immediately refute any suggestions of unprovable 'ideas' (unproven as of yet) as being 'Bullshit' - haha reffering to one specific "scientific philosopher" and im hoping he knows who he is

when somebody has their mind made up immediately, thats a very rigid belief system they have running their lives there.

Haha and yeah this is really going to fuck around with traditional definitions of 'religion' but I'm just talking about a belief system that creates a world view for the masses. In past times it was religion that tried to explain the infintiely unexplainable, now it is the role of science to explain these things. Replace one with the other... Science has come a long way and we are coming infintely closer to explaining all that is to us unknown, but we're pretty far from knowing everything.. haha yeah thats just absurd, when will we know it all eh? ;)

point is, some kind of metaphysical / mystical / divine explenation serves the purpose to fill the gaps... I DO believe a religion is necessary for the masses, until we all want to wake up to the realities of 'personal experience' right now we're letting somebody else do the thinking and the controlling.

Once we run our own lives we wont need religion, but now we do.. for it to run our lives... But I hear you say "Nobody wants somebody to tell them what to do"... ... ... ... ... ...

Oh but we do, humans love leadership. I am such an elitist snob, so much so i will call the common man pathetic... but it really is pathetic when one looks at mind control in action.. *ahem* sorry i mean government (govern = control, mente = mind - yeah i love the original definition, hits the nail right on the fucking head.. funny that)

How often are elections won on lies.. or other such transparent bullshit. The lies are transparent as hell if one has even the most.. recent recollection of history.. like 3 month periods, The dichotomy of politicans is self-evident with the slightest touch of analysis (ah fuck the effort eh?)

But we believe em cuz we choose to.. choose to let them control our minds... so much easier to put it on auto-pilot than to be in a 'confused, chaotic state of being' i mean yeah it is frightening to be original, to have your own thoughts, to take your own actions.. we need guidance, we need validation that what we're doing is the right thing... the common man Needs religion.

It's fair enough to call them stupid and say Abolish all religions, but when the Need is there... something will fill the gap....

Ok now I am an elitist. I am part of the elite.. as are many of you. Not the aristocratic elite ruling the world, but the thinking elite. Those of us who search within ourselves for deeper meaning. Those who look within ourselves for questions and answers, and those of us who create our own realities and make our own decisions. Of course I am only 'waking up' slowly and in a pretty ignorant state I am sure... But i am not nearly as blind as the masses, Ignorance is fucked up... And I'd suggest it's an intentional thing in part, because learning hard truths is... hard, on the soul, very painful knowing how deluded the majority of this planet really is.

The trick is to create a religion that does improve everybody's state of being, standard of living and all that. And sure enough i'd suggest that most religions start off with the purest of intentions. So that is to trick followers into falling into this mass-delusion, so long as it is a helpful delusion and not exploited and used to harm folks. When they are ready to wake up they will do so... perhaps this religion could even have multiple meanings, one for the deep sleepers and another for those in the process of waking something that will tickle or provoke your imagination and your sense of right and wrong. As a kind of transitionary guide to becoming lucid in this dream we call reality.

I'm really interested in Early Christianity (especially gnosticism) and the importance of myth and Interpretation! that be of course PERSONAL interpretation, i mean it's great to throw ideas around with other thinkers, but don't let one priest tell you what the bible means... i really don't think they know.. or they don't want to tell you... hehe :D

Erm... Yeah I want to dive head first into my psyche and see what I'm thinking.. we all do ;) But i tell ya it's pretty fucking chaotic, I don't Need religion but I appreciate what other great thinkers have thought before me and I like to put their suggestions into practice when re-programming, with My own interpretation. And as Isaac Newton (i think) said.. "I only got where I am by standing on the shoulders of giants" So I don't need or want a religion, but I definietly want these 'self help' texts to be around - in their full unscensored glory - ie: the bible is a 'lite' version, if you will and quite well crafted by the 'evil empire'.

Religion implies a rigid belief system. this I do not want or need (but the masses do). But I DO want access to texts relating to anything mystical or metaphysical. As I can reflect on my own experiences in contrast to those others... and I guess everything depends on interpretation but I can very easily 'slot in' old school "religious ideas" into my experience of these archetypes. I mean it's all from the same source yeah?...

Sure much is bullshit, maybe even intentionally so, I mean the prankster God (your own delusional mind) is great at luring us into a trap, but few realise they're sitting in it, but when you realise how you had been fooled, you do appreciate the evil fuckers good work... Enlightenment through Occlusion, By realising the truth is hidden we further our quest to finding IT - instead of believing we already know IT .

The whole goal of this ego-tistical bullshit speaking evil god (old testament), is to make us rethink OURSELVES what really is right and wrong and all that. But that requires further reading, the surface meaning will suffice for most... so yeah kill your 1st born - god will love you.

The reality of this is simple "Fear is your only god" fear of yourself and your own responsibility - repalce that with fear of god... much easier. so you let some1 else take charge... Old Testament God is SOOOO the Demiurge(sp?) i mean he's obvioulsy fucking with us "hey dude kill your first born.... haha i just wanted to see if you'd do it"

Fuck that was long!

...One last point I forgot to mention before. Gomaos. No country goes to war specifically to protect another nation. I mean we generally don't fuck around with things that will cost money and lives unless there is a profit to be made... relook at our motivations for 'helping out' east-timor and you won't think so highly of this selfless act of caring for the downtrodden poor East-Timor folk.

I mean we obviously cared a lot about the poor Iraqis as well, so we wanted to help them out. ;)

The tragedy is when real acts of inhumanity occur, those first to proclaim their service to the world as enforces of peace... take No action. If we truly cared for our brothers and sisters of foreign geography than there have been many critical moments of inaction where lives could have been saved.. Whenever the argument is there that we're helping out, it is pure bs. check out Rwandan Genocide to see how much we cared, when we knew what was going to happen, and then even during the genocide... twiddling our thumbs.

It really IS money above all else. the primary motivator... Im sorry but dont kid yourself gom, we dont give a fuck about east timor.

..and I LOVE Team America, one of the funniest SATIRES I have ever seen. to think this movie was some kind of comedy with a pro-war message is severely missing the point. I won't bother explaining satire and um.. 'taking the piss'

Edited October 30, 2006 by El Duderino

[gomaos]

Roman Empire, "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? "

about 4-5 years ago,

when i still got smashed on whiskey almost every weekend with my then friend "x", we watched the gladiator-movie (which I basically hated and still do).

The only really interesting part was the beginning, when the romans invade germany.

You can see the romans sending out a protege or something (memory loss can't remember the proper word) to the rows of the germans delivering a message to surrender.

The horse comes riding back to the romans, the messenger one head shorter-beheaded- and then the battle starts.

And the romans won. Bla bla bla.

Friend "x" said: "It had to be like that.

the Germans in those days were basically living their whole life on their horses.

Civilisation had to come blablabla...

I then started imagining what it must have been like to spend one's life on horseback.

Completely in tune with nature hopefully.

It must have been great.

Civilisation is an unnecessary burden that ties us down our whole life.

Civilisation expects you to do your share, i.e. have a job in their crappy society etc etc

(Right now they're even trying to make ME work, dammit!)

Once I lived, with my kids and my wife, away from civilisation (80kms exactly, shopping/townday once a week) and i could have been completely happy, even without civilisation.

But wife didn't so it ended.

I could go on and on forever, like granpa Simpson (falling asleep during my speech, boring everyone to death...)

and I LOVE Team America, one of the funniest SATIRES I have ever seen.

it's a free country, supposedly.

My kids dragged me to watch Team America in the movies. It was very very loud and annoying. All they did, by what I could make out, was make war look funny and cool.

So what if they blow up the Eiffel Tower?

that's so funny, hahahahaha...

very sort of "outward, single-minded" sort of humour. Not my kind at all.

I watched countless South Park Episodes. My now teenage kids loved them and watched them whenever possible.

The thing that annoys me about them is: They make capitalism look cool.

they say big corporations are good.

They always only make fun of minorities, never of say, their fucken US-President.

In fact, even in their cartoons, they still "respect" fuckwit Bush.

I don't hate them totally.

Many times I even agree with them.

The Michael jackson episode was pretty reasonable, realistic and funny.

I share their attitude re that blood-dripping Jesus-movie: disgusting!

But their reasons are it's anti-semitic (which it is but I would have never noticed)

since "it was the jews who tortured and killed jesus".

My reasons are I hate just hate bloody and violent movies.

And then the south park "hippie" episode. Jeez I had some good laughs for sure.

But really, they said a few too many times "hippies aren't people" and they make drug-users look really really stupid.

Because of course, they are reactonaries, they are republicans and vote for bush.

And hate anything alternative.

And have great influence on young people.

One could say, they are conditioning young people to be "cannon-fodder" for Bush's purposes.

[Guest onemind]

I then started imagining what it must have been like to spend one's life on horseback.

Completely in tune with nature hopefully.

It must have been great.

Civilisation is an unnecessary burden that ties us down our whole life.

Man, you watch far too much tv and smoke too much mj.

I would give you 2 days out in the bush on horseback before you beg to get back to your creature comforts. You have a very black and white, simplistic outlook..

[botanika]

"God isn't dead, he just got the hell out of here"

MAD magazine

[gomaos]

would give you 2 days out in the bush on horseback before you beg to get back to your creature comforts. You have a very black and white, simplistic outlook..

i spent 12 years in the bush (well not on horseback but who needs horses) without many "normal" civilisation comforts like power, town water and what have you.

Loved it when the family was still there.

Couldn't take it by myself.

But I sure think I know what I'm talking about.

I have a realistic outlook.

Man, you watch far too much tv and smoke too much mj.

I haven't smoked any mj or anything else, not even a single puff, since January this year ( 9 months now), and I'm very proud of it.

Also, you are patronizing me.

The only tv shows I watch are the simpsons and futurama, but I know them all anyway since they're all re-runs.

Other than that I watch cds and dvds I rip off the net, all kinds of things, my own programming.

TV programming is shit!

Edited October 31, 2006 by gomaos

[The Dude]

...I guess i DO, have to explain satire...

it's taking the piss dude. It's looking at the American style info-tainment news media. The sensationalistic and 'entertaining' news media. The way they glorify War and make it look like a video game. The way they smash up cities and fire a missile into the louvre or whatever again is poiking fun at Americas apparent disregard for the property of other nations.. they're the cowboys fighting to save the world

even the title says it all World Police. I mean it's a fucking Joke. Police State's are enough we don't need or want a Police Planet. And who is America to police the world? I mean surely it'd have to bve a united effort. The movie is MAKING FUN, of america and their attitude that they own the world and are therefore the only authority to police it.

Furthermore the idea that these Actors are saving the world, just illustrates the whole thing further that to America (via their media) the thing is a TV show. a flasified production. Look at any war footage and it's about the funky missile cams or shots of impressive USA weapons and tanks, not so much the bloody gruesome realities. It's presented as entertainment. Dismembered and crispy civilians aren't as pretty as cool explosions n shit.

The fact that They're actors is like a metaphor demonstrating this fake news. The fact they're puppets further shows it's fake.

I think the root of all evil is ignoarance. You hate this movie yes Gom? you'd rather it didn't exist as it is conditioning young minds to be pro-war?. It'll give one that meaning if that's the one they look for, we all see what we want i guess...

my point is, you seem to be ignorant of the true nature of this movie (it seems), and you may even hate it. hate leads to worse things... like starwars

Now you may hate George Bush.. or Rumsfeld or.. Wolfowitz or Cheney they're all pretty evil yeah. and yeah i would say they are the forces of darkness, one of their major players anyhow. But I love them for their good work. If they hadn't so extremely showed their powers of 'evil' and occlusion and ignorance peddling, this facade would'nt be so damn obvious to see.

My point is... One I am trying very hard to.. evangelise (??) here... is that we cannot hate our enemies... hey wait jesus said that. point is they want us to hate them yousee. It keeps the weels of war and exploitation in motion.

The only way to an alternative is by being that alternative... and tellin every1 bout it, when they see there's a choice... the decision is easy made... i dunno wtf choice im talking about,

oh yeah, fear, ignorance and hate - OR - love and harmony and all that - can we have that yet ffs?

Edited November 1, 2006 by El Duderino

[gomaos]

my point is, you seem to be ignorant of the true nature of this movie (it seems), and you may even hate it. hate leads to worse things... like starwars

Well yes, I am, and you have failed to explain why I should like it.

we cannot hate our enemies... hey wait jesus said that. point is they want us to hate them yousee. It keeps the weels of war and exploitation in motion.

Well what are u supposed to do? Tell them you love them? The hippies did that, and see what happened to them. The whole world makes fun of them, most of all your beloved south-park-creators.

.

i don't really want to post about politics anymore.

my whole life is some sort of protest against the nuclear/american way of life.

I'm tired. it's up to you young folk now.

Edited November 3, 2006 by gomaos

[The Dude]

Yeh my bad I guess I FAILED in explaining the comedy to you. cuz comedy must be explained. I guess either you get it or you don't. no amount of explaining, other than clarifying it is a satirical pisstake making fun of americas pro-war stance, will make this movie funny for you.

Hippies must be made fun of! I mean sure they had their ideals n shit and well hell yeah i could be a hippy nowadays... if i had a bandwagon to jump on. It's too hard to be a free-thinker on your own.. i Need other Free-thinkers to follow ;)

[bTW i never saw the hippy episode, heard about it and it sounds fucking funny, stereotypes are the way to go. They're funny because they highlight how most of society thinks about shit. It's funny because WE can see it falls far short of the truth.. hence the hillarity. When you know there is a greater truth than that being shown, then the one They all believe, you look at their mis-conception as funny.]

hmm digression.

If one is a hippy, or feels a close connection to the hippy ideals or whatever, and they can't take criticism of their own belief system (ala religion). then That is the problem with the world today. If one cannot accept criticism, especially if done as a joke, then their belief systems are too rigid. If you take offense.. that's your problem, not the problem of the joker.

I feel the same way about the cartoons depicting mohammad that resulted in stupid violence. True they were specifically inciting this kind of hate because they were just bastard cartoons, not really funny either from what i could tell. It could be argued that they were 'wrong' or 'bad'... but shiiiit it's all subjective man...

One could be happy with the comical depiction of their prophet if they see that those doing the joke-making.. the hate-inciting and all that, are deluded and on the wrong path... too bad for them. and as a true follower of Islam will not react in a violent manner.

People NEED their belief systems, to give them a sense of purpose and place, in the context of this.. chaotic existence... the thing is.. belief systems are so rigid, that any contradictions or holes in the theory will make the whole illusion crumble down.... which is really Essential in seeing a greater Truth. - one must first be dis-Illusioned to see that... it is an illusion. But yeah wtf does that mean in everyday living?

To see the full picture, including the love of your fellow wo/man the love of the planet in nourishing you.. the love of the sun in providing us warmth.. the love of our galaxy in giving us a place.. the love of... all that put us in this place and time to experience this beautiful cahnce of being alive...

Instead of being clouded by igorance and fear.. and mostly Fear thru ignoarance... of the things we fear.. hehe i think they're interchangeable fear=ignorange=evil. It's either that we fear what other atrocities the Powers That Be (PTB) will continue to do, or we feel the urge to exact revenge for what tehy have done... both are unnessecary and cloud the mind with anger and such.

Instead you could see the potential for enjoying life.. rather than wallowing in the problems created by evil men... sure we must change this reality.. but it won't be by following in the footsteps of those that we hate the most. - it's a basic philosophy.. but our conditioning makes it very diffuicult for most of us to accept.. we have this rediculous urge for justice and fairness.. and exacting punsihment. The best punishment to give is to not give in to their ways... Live the alternative lifestyle and have them sitting in their own material prisons - of their own making. They wont feel the confinement until they see us running around in freedom, and then maybe they too will break down their prison walls and join us...

These people are not to be hated for their ignorance.. they are to be pittied and we must do our best to enlighten them... by keeping the world in slavery they are themselves slaves to it.

They may have the riches.. but our philosophies are worth more than gold.

Gom

You seem to be very sure of the SP creators pro-bush, anti-hippy sentiments, and my proposal that the movie is actually ANTI-WAR may put a great big hole in your pciture of these guys. so you ignore this, and say i couldnt explain that the movie is funny.. haha wtf does that mean? I can't explain funny, i can just say it's a satire.. watch it again with this in mind and tell me it's not funny... instead of giving up and telling us young-uns to give a shit about politics... you obviously DO give a shit.. and that kinda energy is great... the direction seems misguided - I dont mean to be an asshole gom, and don't want to sound condescening. this message is hard for everyone to accept.

but the only change we can create is by loving our enemies, and forgiving them. when you lower yourself to their level it creates these thought pathways that are only re-enforced with every violent thought or action, it becoems easier to be violent.. the more we hate, the harder it is to be truely righteous...

erm.. every1 should probably disregard my theory on "hate-neurology"

Edited November 3, 2006 by El Duderino

[The Dude]

My religion or world view is of this existence as a co-creation of all conscious beings.. there is the philosophy that every speck of dust contains a part of consiousness.. that it is that which creates existence in the first place... evolving.. into stars, planets and life.. is the natural process of conscious life.

I believe in belief.. and as such know that christ.. and the mother mary are true.. to me they are but another interpretation of archetypal themes. krishna, Vishnu and any other 'whacky' mythologies are just as real in the transpersonal realms of thought.. the logos, the shared collective knowledge by us all...

Religions are instrumental in shaping our existence.. as it is our view of existence that creates this in the first place... unfortunately i feel our religious institutions do nothing more than rape our minds.. and then we continue in the ways we are taught.

Entropy means that existence is getting more and more complicated and a unified belief system based on One universal truth is non-existant. the only whole is the sum of all parts.

...unsure if our plant teachers allow for some form of alien consciousness to be downloaded into our brain.. or rather they may grant access to the non-personal god that is the all seeing eye, pure knowledge all that. This knowledeg is mytholigised into forms and entities in our creative human brain. To be able to communicate.. we must have someBody that is communicating to us...

Why is this the female serpent godess lady all the time?.. or jesus christ every now and then.. i don't know. cultural imprints on my mind.

re: my beleifs

The only problem I personally have is that I am unsure of all I beleive, and hence.. don't really believe in anything. in a constant state of limbo.. do I Need something to believe in? can I not just believe in pursuing the mystery?

also re: shamanism, it seems from all anecdotal evidence that the whole method of shamanic healing.. and magic in general is in fully convincing yourself of the healing powers of the plant and shaman etc. and that is enough for the body to carry out it's own form of self healing. Being in a constant uncertain state of this 'hippy bullshit' taints any future experiments that would work to convince me.. but they never will cuz i won't believe in them in the first place.. see the catch here?

If I demand proof of miracles.. i will never be shown them

If I believe in them.. they might happen (dunno yet, but freaky shit Does happen in life)

I love this forum, dont care if people read these or not but I like to express this bullshit somewhere.

[IndigoNative]

We need to remember where we come from, the land, nature, and for me the dreamtime.

WHy we are here? it seems to me the only reason we are here in society is to push this civilsiation ever further into what man thinks he is acheiving as the ultimate pursiut to be like a god.

My ancestors beleived in taking care if this beautiful land that cares for us and living everyday as it was on there first day,THrew my spirit I can score a glimpse at what my ancestors lived for and what i see is harmony and complete accpetance for our place connected and not seperate in this world.

If there's anything to believe in look for example at the native americans who believed in the treasure's of inner knowledge compared to the illusion's of western cultures monetary rewards.

Easily viewed from movies like blueberry and deadman.

I think that as long as a person follows this principle truthfully everday in there lives they will find truth from illusion.

Xsaybechay He who talk loud say nothing!

[gomaos]

Hippies must be made fun of! I mean sure they had their ideals n shit and well hell yeah i could be a hippy nowadays... if i had a bandwagon to jump on.

well sure why not... i wish I had a bandwagon to jump on myself... but today's bandwagon almost all suck and stink... not that there were any good bandwagons, say 30 years ago...

a hippie? what's a hippie? I don't see myself as a hippie, for example, I like some of the hippie-music, some i don't, most music I listen to has nothing to do with hippies... I don't even think there are any hippies left really...

hmmm... nimbin... the nimbin market is one of the few places where you could say the people there are hippies.. or at least look like hippies... but the cops in Nimbin are now making sure there won't be any hippies left... bastards...

It's too hard to be a free-thinker on your own.. i Need other Free-thinkers to follow

exactly

back to south park: they always only make fun of minorities, never say, of big corporations, their dump president etc. because they support them... prove me wrong if you can... that why I don't like em...

but they don't need me to like them there's millions of uncritical youths who follow them blindly...

and"team america" being anti-war? No. I don't think so.

I agree with most of the rest you write, it appears we only have different view points of south park and team america.

[-YT-]

"well sure why not... i wish I had a bandwagon to jump on myself... but today's bandwagon almost all suck and stink... not that there were any good bandwagons, say 30 years ago...

a hippie? what's a hippie? I don't see myself as a hippie, for example, I like some of the hippie-music, some i don't, most music I listen to has nothing to do with hippies... I don't even think there are any hippies left really..."

Just another one of those streotypical character labels. Does it have any meaning.. most probably not but if people wish to label one a "hippy" then so be it if it shall help them to understand where that person is at within themselves and the world. I would prolly agree with Gom on " i dont even think there are any hippies left really" i mean there are people who adopt a similar lifestyle and there concepts etc but really if you have dreadlocks and smoke cheeba most people would label you a hippy . A somewhat degrogative term for lazy stoners and ladys with hairy armpits who embrace total freedom or whatever. 30 years ago i can only speculate but was a very heated time of change when the youth saw the destruction and pain casued by war, conscription, racial hate etc. When people stood up for what they believed... not just idle chat.. like nowadays. I think it was more then just jumping on the Bandwagon, maybe not in regards to the substance use tho lol

"lso re: shamanism, it seems from all anecdotal evidence that the whole method of shamanic healing.. and magic in general is in fully convincing yourself of the healing powers of the plant and shaman etc. and that is enough for the body to carry out it's own form of self healing. Being in a constant uncertain state of this 'hippy bullshit' taints any future experiments that would work to convince me.. but they never will cuz i won't believe in them in the first place.. see the catch here?"

Kinda like convincing oneself of the amazing an mysterious possiblities of this world of our energetic state of being, then possibly knowing anything is possible in terms of what energy can do.. more so then a solid sack of meat... and its limitations. Believe what you know, what youve experienced, "hippy bullshit" or whateva is just that talk, concepts, ideas take it a stepfurther - push the envelope and see what you can find and validate.. To travel into the great dark void and return is a challenge even if none acknowledge or know or even believe, But you will.

"An average man cares that things are either true or false, but a warrior doesn't. An average man proceeds in a specific way with things that he knows are true, and in a different way with things that he knows are not true. If things are said to be true, he acts and believes in what he does. But if things are said to be untrue, he doesn't care to act, or he doesn't believe in what he does. A warrior, on the other hand, acts in both instances. If things are said to be true, he would act in order to do doing . If things are said to be untrue, he still would act in order to do not-doing"

Edited November 4, 2006 by Young Tripper

[gomaos]

A somewhat degrogative term for lazy stoners and ladys with hairy armpits who embrace total freedom or whatever.

funny thing to be picking up on, but that just reminded me...

early 80s, when my lady and me and our kids migrated to Ozz, I noticed some rude remarks about her hair in the armpit...

is this just an american/australian thing that girls have to shave their armpits?

I mean my then wife certainly was attractive and far from ugly (there was always heaps of males obviously very horny for her), but till then she hadn't worried about shaving her armpits.

Neither had I, those few light-blond curls never bothered me, they were kind of like fairy floss or something, I was used to them...

30 years ago i can only speculate but was a very heated time of change when the youth saw the destruction and pain casued by war, conscription, racial hate etc.

yeah mon, just imagine you'd get a letter saying:

"here's your ticket, next monday it's off to vietnam, to fight uncle sam's war for them..."

freaky!!!

Thank (ummhh, who?)whitlam abolished conscription...

if that fuckwit governor-general wouldn't have ousted him, he would have even legalized cannabis...

much to the hate of these masses of conservative right-wing rednecks who are telling everyone: "You have to live like us, or it's off to jail!(for smoking dope etcetcetc)"

Fuck those conservatives!

Edited November 5, 2006 by gomaos

[gomaos]

Being in a constant uncertain state of this 'hippy bullshit' taints any future experiments that would work to convince me.. but they never will cuz i won't believe in them in the first place.. see the catch here?"

exactly. You have put into words what I have been trying to express for a long time.

[The Dude]

I have come down to this plane to communicate with the common people in the New English, re-instilled with an overuse of nouns, verbs, adjectives adverbs pronouns and not to mention conjunction-junctions with a multitude of functions in extending an already too long sentence and making shit an impossible task to write, let alone read. My point is I talk WAY too much shit. But hey it was a learning experience for me at least.

haha but seriously I was on some evangelical mission bullshit, i think to find myself mostly.

[The Dude]

All the systems must be challenged.. and then smashed, and then re-built. No religion is sacred. They're all mind-control mechanisms and we're the machines, until you see things for yourself... buahaha - yeh hysterical. I just don't think I can express myself fully, unless I fill this whole page with random bullshit... ;)

Propagandhi - Fuck Religion! = Best song IMHO

Bad Religion = Best Punk Band.. probably.

So I guess there's my stance... fuck the masses, if they need religion, let them just be lost.

Edited November 5, 2006 by El Duderino

[botanika]

All the systems must be challenged..

I think so too because yesterdays problems can't always be solved with yesterdays solutions.

[Guest onemind]

I think all deluded pseudo spiritual people who still haven't quite found the absolute truth of life say the same cliques over and over again.

[-YT-]

"I think all deluded pseudo spiritual people who still haven't quite found the absolute truth of life say the same cliques over and over again."

The subtle instigator hey, put a smilie face in your post to offset what you type heh. I never said anything about finding absolute truths of life, you put words in my mouth Gringo. Repitition is apart of life, the only cliques i repeated where about experiencing things for oneself going out and doing it getting your hands dirty... sorry if i dont wanna waste time and energy in endless arguementative philosophical debate about buddhism/christianity etc or some other religion i really dont care for. All i was offering was my thoughts and Opinions not trying to push anything onto anyone just reinforce ideas with repition.

I can only ask you this please dont judge someone you dont even know, everyone is entitled to their opinion if you dont agree no need to become self important with remarks that dont enchance or add to the discussion in a positive way.

Deluded pseudo spiritual people

[Guest onemind]

For one, my comment was typed after reading botanikas reply and i didn't even read yours.

For two, dont take everything personally.

For three, i am a deluded pseudo spiritual person myself and was merely making an observation that all like minded people say the same things over and over and over and over again. Not meant to be an insult or suggestion, like i said, just an observation

[The Dude]

I like being a deluded pseudo spiritual person that repeats old clichés. I mean I guess they're stereotypical of spiritual inpsyghts, cuz well, they usually point to the same universal truths.. yeah? hence those.. searching, tend to repeat all this shit.

Such as um love, a universal mind, experiencing itself subjectively... all that jazz.

being in the now, this moment, entropy, what goes around comes around... um and then there's funky shit with time being an illusion and synchronicities being manifested from ones own mind in a way and um all that mind over matter telepathy / universal database/internet/logos shizzle. The all seeing eye.

And then there's the realm of paranoid delusions about.. illuminati mind control.. experiences of surveillance Big Bro style, and MIB type agents (more matrix style )... And there's the revelation that this fear is delusional and you can and must control your own mind and be responsible for your actions and your life...

err.. well duh. sorry if I'm repeating some shit.

Oh yeah.. and then there is the grand revelation that Reptillians are in control.

Oh yeah one more thing.. I do appreciate the job all you guys are doing in performing this grand drama for myself.. that is everything you say to me or any which way you interact with me is specifically motivated to make me think/say/do things in my life.. that is you all play a part in shaping the rythm that i.. walk to. ... I KNOW you're all in on it! but it'sall good, sure u tend to play mind games with my soul and fuck round with my life.. but I appreciate the comedy of it all, don't worry.

..does any1 else ever feel that way?

I mean no matter how you answer.. that's part of the script that you're feeding me. I know it's a big play...