Brugmansia first timer

[AndyAmine.]

If your really keen on an oral Tropane experinace, maybe try thinking about ingesting some Avil motion sickness tablets instead, they contain a standardised dose of tropane alkaloids (Hyoscamine) unlike the plant material which can vary in dosage wildly. (upto and over 600% from flower to flower, or so I hear!)

They will get you to the place you want to go but will allow you to do it wiht some idea of dosage and saftey.

Please only follow this advice in a place where legal to do so.

[Green Osiris]

QUOTE: Please only follow this advice in a place where legal to do so.

Is Avil illegal in some states ?

[apothecary]

"Hallucinogenic"...nothing like the oral experience, just because it's so immersing.

Many nights sitting around the side of my abode (in another part of the world) puffing on chillums of stramonium leaf and good ganja have left me in an altered state that is otherwise irreplicable using other combos (and ingestion methods! chillums usually pack quite a punch) .

I wasn't really aware of anything when I looked into the darkness, but wherever light was absent my mind would suddenly become very afraid of jaguars

[apothecary]

P.S:

entheonoob, I doubt anyone here really minds if you do this, most of us have considerable respect for traditional shamans who employed these plants...

We just want to make sure you understand the risks and proceed with caution (just like the training shamen recieve).

botanika, as for going overboard, from my experience (again like you say everyones different), unless you've been doing it often so the cumulative effect is eventually 'overboard', the most likely occurance from heavy smoking (for infrequent smokers of this stuff) is to simply zonk the hell out.

Ask Benzito

[Pala]

Is recreational use limited to the B. aurea variety, what about other species? Eg. B. candida?

Btw, although you didn't ask about this: I've found B. to be v. easy to grow. I ordered a small one from SAB, which came basically as a thick stick with a leaf (fallen off), and then over about a month another ten leaves had appeared and grown to respectable sizes.

G'luck

[Leo^]

I havent tried smoking brug, but I have some ideas that I got about brug after having some atropine nasal spray today. This may just be delusional ranting but I will add it anyway. I feel brug is a very powerful feminine spirit, and if your attitudes towards the feminine of our species isnt totally pure then she will find this extremely offensive and want to teach you some respect. Also got a lot of this idea from a report IndigoSunrise did, think the thread is called "Brug report for ballzac" or something similar. This theme seems to run with a lot of the trip reports Ive read on erowid, with the temptress tempting the man into showing his true colours towards women then threading him to pieces when his impurity rears its head. Apothecary also said something recently about using choline containing plants like borage as a safeguard, to have there to quickly ingest just incase things suddenly spiral out of control, dont know if this has been put to practise yet though. Just my 2 cents, for my first ever plant experience I had HBWR (where legal) and it was gentle, kind, loving and taught me so much. Very very full on but still it was all positive (even the staying awake till 7am staring at my alarm clock in total ectasty). For a less full on experience Id recommend mushrooms though, they were even gentler and very caring too, but of course everyones different so it may just be that you need to start slow and find what you are comfertable with. Blessings to you for desiring knowledge and love

[entheonoob]

P.S:

entheonoob, I doubt anyone here really minds if you do this, most of us have considerable respect for traditional shamans who employed these plants...

We just want to make sure you understand the risks and proceed with caution (just like the training shamen recieve).

After quite a bit of research I think I have a fair idea of what I'm getting into however nature is very unpredictable and she will do with you as she pleases. Like I said earlier, I will be taking this extremely slowly, I understand its nothing to be rushed into.

I have to thank everyone for their advice, opinions and sharing their experiences. Its been very helpful.

[Torsten]

gollum -

I am keen to hear about your "Whole Hog" experience.

I am sure I've posted about them before. Like most things it was a phase I went through. Probably one of the most enlightening phases I've had.

What are the disturbing side effects you talk about? Was is a pleasent experience? What sort of hallucinations occured? I have mainly heard of frightening experiences.

Bad hallucinations happen when your mind or body aren't OK. The nasty dry throat is enough to turn many trips bad. Fear is probably the worst enemy though. When you start to see things you will likely be oblivious to the fact that the things aren't actually there, so there is really no problem. But at some stage you might encounter that whatever you are interactign with is indeed not there or was in fact the hot stove and just burnt you really badly etc, and then fear starts to creep into the experience. I did brugs at a time when I used to completely surrender to my experiences and not fear death. Pretty reckless and I can't even imagine myself in that situation today, but at the time it allowed for a serenity and acceptance during trips that could overcome any obstacle.

Experiences range from full recall of vivid hallucinations right through to almost total amnesia and this does not appear to always be dose dependent (once you get over a certain dose). Pleasant? Many of my low dose tropane experiments were extremely pleasant but I am not sure that label applies to the high dose ones. Certainly they delivered what I was looking for, but after years of deep searching with the use of acid and shrooms, I was looking to explore the darker aspects of my mind. If you want to know what your mind is capable of when many of the functions that make us modern humans are switched off then tropanes are the way to go.

Also you talk about your limits. What is a good indication of ones limits with Datura/Brug?

Amnesia. Whats the point in going there if you don't recall anything!

other than that your limit should be your safety. If you are in urban areas then don't even consider entering the uncontrolled hallucinogenic state of tropanes!!!! You are likely to hurt yourself and others and also make it into the media. In this case simply use tropanes to add a sparkle to other things, such as shrooms or ayahusca. However, if you have a safe spot in the country and an experienced sitter (who can stay up for 48 hours!!), then go push those boundaries.

[Gollum]

Thanks Torsten, It sounds like a very interesting experience, though something i feel i am not quite ready for at this stage in my life. I am very curious though to say the least.

[nil]

whew! i'll grow 'em and you boys can smoke 'em. i just like the perty flowers.

the only experience i've heard of first hand is a mate who ate a whole pod of datura seeds. he ended up in the emergency ward back in the usa, throwing up "worms" which consequently "burrowed into" his flesh. sounds fun!

[whit3rabbit]

My first experience with Brug was with an oral dose of tea made from a few leaves and flowers. I would never recommend tea as a first try, you should definitely try smoking it first. I find the effects achieved from smoking are almost the exact same feelings as in the come up to the hallucinogenic state I get from taking the tea. I've never hallucinated from smoking, and I've never tried any other methods (salves etcs).

As far as experiences go, I found it to be quite enjoyable. It didn't taste too bad, and after about 45 minutes when I stood up I had to sit straight back down because my legs wouldnt work. I didn't have any hallucinations until I went to lay down in bed, where I would drift in and out of a kind of sleep, intermittently having conversations with people and jumping out of bed to stop myself from getting burnt by a ciggarette I kept dropping, which didn't even exist. The most interesting part of this experience was at about 4 in the morning I woke up and there was one of those people on TV that talk about religion, but she was talking top ME. I spoke with her for a whole hour, and when she tried to get me to pray I had to convince her I 'wasn't into that kind of thing'. She then asked me over to 'the prayer chair' so I got out of bed and walked over to to the tv and stood there for a few minutes, and when she didn't pass me a chair I sat back on the bed. Not long after she left (her show ended), I went back to sleep, for good this time.

What I find strange is I rememebr a lot of that night, but a lot of people have an amnesia about their experiences.

A short description of my second tea experience, I took some, it tasted slightly worse then the first time, went to my aunties house for dinner. I ended up asking my nan where I put my bag. I didn't have a bag and my nan was in holiday in WA...

I haven't tried tea much since then becasuse everyitme I do it it tastes worse and worse, but smoking it is fine, doesn't taste (too) bad at all. I also don't get dry mouth with smoking, but I do with the tea.

I hope some of this info can help you with your experiences with brug.

EDIT: Once experience, not my own but I witnessed it, my friends frist try with tea, he saw giant spiders and layed in the doorway not moving for about 4 hours. He then got up and said 'have u got any', i say 'any what', he says' bandaids' and goes back to sleep

Edited October 2, 2006 by psykopath_juggalo

[indigo264nm]

Just want to add that potency seems to be very unreliable with Brug - but I'd imagine younger plants are not as potent... it took me years of being cautious before I got a full blown experience, and strangely enough it was from the same dose I'd tried two nights earlier with little success - the only difference being a different flower picked at the same time from the same plant.

If you're interested in reading my brug experience report it can probably be found in the Creativity section somewhere, or on erowid in the combinations section with my screen name as the author. Watch yourself, she likes to play tricks.

Best wishes...

[MORG]

Speaking of potency, I think it was Apo who mentioned that older leaves are less potent than young growth. My limited experience supports this.

[entheonoob]

Well my Brug came today so tonight I'll try smoking a tiny bit. I wanna thank SAB for this quick service, from what I've read it can take a few weeks sometimes but this was nice and speedy

[Ashoka]

The dropped/lost/smoking non-existant cigarette theme is one I've seen reappear in many trip reports on tropane induced experiences. There is some kind of connection going on here the question is if its related to the alkaloid profile, the plant group or something "spiritual", or perhaps all of the above. Anyone else noticed this?

[ballzac]

Yes, a very recurrent theme in trip reports. Question is, does in only happen to smokers? I wouldn't think it would happen to non-smokers in general, but as a reformed smoker, I could imagine something like that.

[bloodbob]

If your going to do it orally take this advice.

Having been nursed by mother into the earlier hours of the morning and her considering calling the paramedics because she couldn't keep on looking after me I have this to say.

Once you take a dose don't take ANY BLOODY MORE. Its a nasty thing as it slows down you digestion so it delays itself there is no real knowing when its going to hit please don't redose its got like a 12 hour half-life.

The hallucinations/delusions aren't fun or cool however I didn't mind the body high which of course can be experienced at a lower dose as well as all the negative effects. ( Having your friend dissapear on when your talking to them is just plain annoying )

Edited October 5, 2006 by bloodbob

[entheonoob]

Well last night I smoked a medium sized leaf mixed with a little bit of cigarette tabacco. I didn't notice any effects at all except a slight stoning, but I had only about 2 hours sleep the night before so my results could be have jaded by that. Will try again once the plant has grown a bit bigger.

[whit3rabbit]

Well last night I smoked a medium sized leaf mixed with a little bit of cigarette tabacco. I didn't notice any effects at all except a slight stoning, but I had only about 2 hours sleep the night before so my results could be have jaded by that. Will try again once the plant has grown a bit bigger.

I prefer to smoke the flower, without tobacco. About two cones gets me the body stone, and greatly increased dream vividity. So maybe try some before going to bed.

[noun]

Well last night I smoked a medium sized leaf mixed with a little bit of cigarette tabacco. I didn't notice any effects at all except a slight stoning, but I had only about 2 hours sleep the night before so my results could be have jaded by that. Will try again once the plant has grown a bit bigger.

Patience my friend, "Journey, not the destination".

[ballzac]

I prefer to smoke the flower,

What's the difference? Is there a difference in the ratio of the various alkaloids? Or just a potency difference? Which is stronger? It's funny, but I'd never thought of smoking the flowers. I know people use them in tea, but it never occured to me to smoke them. The flowers are the best part of the marijuana plant, but it's a different type of flower, seems weird with the brug flower, a bit like smoking a rose petal.

[foolsbreath]

What are the intrinsic and qualitative differences between smoking henbane and datura for those with experience in using both these plants as guides?

[indigo264nm]

What's the difference? Is there a difference in the ratio of the various alkaloids? Or just a potency difference? Which is stronger? It's funny, but I'd never thought of smoking the flowers. I know people use them in tea, but it never occured to me to smoke them. The flowers are the best part of the marijuana plant, but it's a different type of flower, seems weird with the brug flower, a bit like smoking a rose petal.

Stronger - and thus a more powerful smoke... tastes nicer as well. I prefer to smoke a mixture of both leaf and flower.

I remember passing a dewb to a guy at a doof which had a bit of brug flower in it - he said it tasted like it was honey soaked .

[PD.]

The dropped/lost/smoking non-existant cigarette theme is one I've seen reappear in many trip reports on tropane induced experiences

I still had my ciggie but my stubby kept disappearing. "where the hell is my stubby now? and i wish that dude would piss off"

That was the day after two nights of fairly heavy smoking. My stubby seemed to just vanish when it was right in front of me and it felt like someone was constantly behind me. I prolly smoke a bit too much sometimes

I drank a brew when i was young and dumb, i have never tried that again

Drinking whilst smoking it isnt the greatest idea, it creeps and creeps, so you might not notice anything for ten to twenty minutes then blamo. I think Morg might be on the money

I think the alkaloids are also synergistic with alcohol so be careful in this regard so you don't go over the top. - morg

The blurry vision is a sign to stop for me but usually the dries get to me first.

[FragmentedSanity]

I once made the mistake of picking a brugmansia leaf in front of someone i shouldnt have. I turns out that he didnt comprehend the idea of an admixture - or infrequent use; and proceeded to use it as spin for their daily mix and as a substitute when the pot ran out.

A few weeks later I discovered all this when he complains of hearing voices and all sorts of wierd stuff all the time as opposed to just when he was smoking . Possibly he just had a weak mind, YMMV.

Anyway the point in all that is to watch the way it can build up in the system and give yiourself a cleansing period between experiments.

I never found smoking it on its own to be great - but it mixes well. Mind and body wasnt in the best place when I was experimenting so I never went as far as Ive heard some do. But I went far enough for me, for the time - or at least thats what it told me then. So for now im content.

As far as the best plants to start with, my advice is to just see what leaps out to you at the time. If youyve suddenly developed an interest in tropanes maybe they have something to show you. So watch your plant grow for a bit, you'll need more leaves than a seedling can supply and besides they're really pretty, and see if something else of interest comes along in the meantime.