whats the most potent cacti you've come accross?

[PD.]

I was going to mention a certain clone but i dont think ppl like it being mentioned for some reason

We dont have ANY potent tricho clones in AU, certainly no good for what ppl in far away places sometimes do with them ;)

[Ace]

Fair call PD - after all, curiosity killed the cat ;)

[teonanacatl]

Me! at the nook did tests on outter flesh vs inner and got a much greater yield from outer.

I think 5% could be obtained taking a strong clone 2%+ and only keeping outter material.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thanks for backing that up Teonanacatl, I know Trout's notes contains another reference to this as well.

It is 100% confirmed that the green flesh just under the waxy skin is the most potent part of the plant material of Trichocereus cacti.

I think 5% could be obtained taking a strong clone 2%+ and only keeping outter material.

I think you can get up to 7% Theres some potent clones out there. Trichocereus are an under utilized entheogenic powerhouse.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Teotz'

[Inyan]

Just a quick note here. There are ways of preparing cacti without it tasting bitter. In particular, one of my first experiences with pejuta was out on the Rosebud rez. I was told I could have as much tea as I wanted for my help with carrying a barrel of it back from a ceremony. I was upset as I thought I was getting a raw deal at the time. I drank a bit of what tasted like lipton tea to me and a school bus load of kids pulled up and asked if they could have some. Me, thinking it was lipton, said go right on ahead. I was told after all that I could have as much as I wanted for carrying it back. I would have sooner poured it out if I had my druthers in the matter. So, the line of kids started and I was amazed at how much they liked their lipton tea. They would get in line and as soon as they were at the front they would fill their cup and march back to the end of the line to begin again. After the kids left, the medicine man came out and asked if there were any buttons. I looked at my shirt and explained nope while I thought, "This guy is asking about buttons?" Then it hit me, buttons is slang for pejuta. To make a long story short, it was a very potent experience for all involved. Taste is a matter of preparation as is smell. Never mind the type of cacti being employed in the sacramental tea.

[Chiral]

so how was it prepared...all very well saying it tasted like lipton tea...but what and how was it brewed, and what cactus where used..?

H.

[trucha]

There is a decent bit online with pictures of the area. Stanford used to have a really nice page on the excavations but it was either moved or taken down as I can't seem to locate it.

There is only one of those Chavin plants shown with good detail but it sure does not look like a pachanoi.

It looks a lot more like a puquiensis (which is known to grow around there).

Observable points suggesting this - smaller flowers, dense brown and white hairy fur on ovary and along scales of tube, there is a well defined hump between the areoles, and there is also the swollen/sunken appearance edging the areoles that is common on puquiensis. Petals of the flowers also suggest this (as best as the image permits) as the ID but a closer and sharper image and some nice shots of new spines would be nice.

An analysis was done on puquiensis collections and all were reported to contain alkaloid levels comparable to some Peruvian pachanoi. This was published in Quepo but I'll have to come back with the reference. (A google online will find it)

Schoenii was similar but was reported to have less concentration (similar to those of the predominate horticultural clone in the US) while interestingly no cuzcoensis they looked at had any mescaline at all. This last bit might answer some questions that some people out there have had for a while?

Edited December 27, 2008 by trucha

[Inyan]

HunabKu,

On the Pine Ridge rez, only pejuta aka as peyote is used in ceremony. Try going out there, South Dakota, in the first weeks of August and you will see for yourself how it is prepared. Not that other days are not possible, but during that time you will also be able help out with the sundances and such with are more prevalent around that time. Sure, I know some of you are thinking why only pejuta? Its because this cacti is sacred to the NAC and utilized as our sacrament. Different cultures have different cacti. It's that simple. This particular batch that I am speaking of was made with dried whole buttons. Personally, I prefer the taste of cacti that has been thoroughly dried. I say lipton tea as it reminds me of sweet tea. Sweet because sugar was obviously added. If you want better tasting tea, my preference is dried pejuta made via the sun tea method and a bit of sugar added. You can boil as well if this is your preference and you don't have to wait four days for your tea with the boiled method, but dried pejuta tea tends to be more appeasing to my personal esthetics. Now, if you don't care about looks, smell, or taste... you can try another method whereby the peyote is ground up and briefly brought to a boil without the addition of sugar. This is placed in a glass jar and buried for one month. There are probably as many ways to make pejuta tea as there are people to make it. I recommend you go to some traditional ceremonies when and wherever possible if you have a calling to this particular medicine or path. The red road is not for everyone as it is not particularly easy. Take the traditional Lakota vision quest for example. You stand for four days without food, water, or sleep. You can move about in a circle a wee bit larger than your feet. This circle is generally made up of a sage matting. Sage bracelets, anklets, and a crown are also made of either male or female sage depending on the sex of the person going on the vision quest. You make these things typically many months before you are to go on your vision quest. If you are male, you will also have a red skirt or if female a white dress. You will also make your 606 prayer ties to wrap around your altar and your 6 prayer flags which will form the corners of your alter. You stand their with nothing but your prayers and your supporters down below who will occasionally sing for you and this gives you strength to continue. You have to prepare for full year before you go up on this quest. It is a serious affair and one that is not easy to do. There are other ways of vision questing of course, but standing for 4 days is considered the easiest. You can go buried for 4 days standing, buried for 4 days laying down, sitting up for 4 days in an inipi/sweat lodge, etc. These other ways are considered much harder as you have no idea of time as there is setting sun that is visible with these other methods. To be sure, even standing for 4 days above ground and you will find yourself losing any sense of time. Seconds can stretch into what seems like years and days can go by in an instant. Still, when you come back from each vision you have a sense of time as you can see the day or night that you are in. You may wonder if it is the same day, an hour, or a few seconds later each time you have a vision. Yes, I know I'm getting a bit off track, but visions whether they are gathered from a traditional vision quest ceremony, sundance, or pejuta ceremony, are all sacred. They all require preparation of which the most common form of preparation is the sweat lodge. You sweat before and after every ceremony when possible. I know I tend to ramble a bit. Hopefully, somewhere in this rambling I have answered a few of your questions.

[mutant]

Very interesting , Inyan you are a great addition to this forum. Not at all rambling ~ sure I am not into mumbojumbo stuff myself, but I am sure you know what you're talking about

Slightly offtopic - I have been wondering for a while: Why would people who are so experienced and fascinated by the potential of some entheogens have so much difficulty to accept tastes/smells? I mean, you're not ingesting it for tastes

Anyways, Swim has not yet a achuma / pejuta experience, but a tiny slice of bridge tested for bitterness tasted much like a bitter cucumber, pretty pleasant or, should I say, not unpleasant at all... Same is with Argyreia / Ipomoea seeds preperation or amanita tea [delicious!]...

Anyways, different people, different ceremonies, different tastes, likings and dislikings

[Inyan]

mumbojumbo stuff myself... now that comment might offend some people.

Lol, not me though. I respect where your coming from. To each their own truth and respecting another's viewpoint whether we choose to agree with it or not is something that is hard for many of us to do. I have to agree with your other posts about taste as well. While irrelevant at some aspect and definitely variable as far as what constitutes a bad or good taste.. etc. Still, it is pleasant to have pleasant things and what is pleasant to one is horrible to another. Much of this is subjective in this context and just as variable as your liking of pepper in your eggs and cilantro in my eggs. Or perhaps to another both go well and either one by itself is distasteful. Food to think about at any rate.

[trucha]

I suspect a fair bit is also cultural.

When traditional healers from different cultures get together and share their time, heart and their medicines there is often acceptance and appreciation of each other's paths.

When an outsider, especially if of another race and world view, tries to tell another person how that other person should practice their religion or what sacrament they should or should not use or what substitute sacrament they should use, that is going to be left unheard or ignored.

At this point it seems unlikely that anyone outside of the NAC could even get the deliberate harvesting of peyote roots to stop.

No matter what one might be able to logically extrapolate based on pharmacology, the peyote faith is about the peyote not mescaline.

Peyote people in general do not use trichocereus for much the same reasons that ayahuasceros don't brew with caapi leaves or the Catholic church would not want to replace their communion wine with an eye dropper of ethanol.

[Garbage]

Dont mention the ghost dancin' shirts!

[Chiral]

Very interesting , Inyan you are a great addition to this forum. Not at all rambling ~ sure I am not into mumbojumbo stuff myself, but I am sure you know what you're talking about

Slightly offtopic - I have been wondering for a while: Why would people who are so experienced and fascinated by the potential of some entheogens have so much difficulty to accept tastes/smells? I mean, you're not ingesting it for tastes

Anyways, Swim has not yet a achuma / pejuta experience, but a tiny slice of bridge tested for bitterness tasted much like a bitter cucumber, pretty pleasant or, should I say, not unpleasant at all... Same is with Argyreia / Ipomoea seeds preperation or amanita tea [delicious!]...

Anyways, different people, different ceremonies, different tastes, likings and dislikings

A big part of the experience is the awful taste of most Entheogens...earthy, woody, slimy..it all adds to part of the trip...if you can modify a recipe so that it tastes nice and even familiar then so much better for the user.

Personally if I could get all Entheogens to taste relatively neutral I would be extremely happy..personally most taste like shit and ruin the start of the experience with slight nausea...that effects the trip a hell of a lot.

So when I hear someone say they had a tea that tasted like liptons I immediately would love to know how it was done. This area of our sacred plants needs a lot of work and I am allways trying to find ways to make them taste some what palatible.

H.

[trucha]

In response to the subject title, wouldn't it similarly be a great community service if all of the people using illicit drugs and knowing who is selling the best material at the best prices always kept current versions of that information posted online too. It could save so many people a lot of time and effort.

[Micromegas]

Sometimes you just have to pay the price of entry

[mutant]

mumbojumbo stuff myself... now that comment might offend some people.

heh, the colloquial I use might sometimes be used wrongly because english is not my mother tongue. Sorry if offended someone, but the comment was totally light-spirited .. I see now in the dictionary that 'mumbo jumbo' has quite a negative charge, but also the 'mixed-up / complicated activity' meaning

[Inyan]

Mutant,

No offense meant means no offense was taken. In short, that means, it's all good.

[trucha]

If one will pardon the pun sometimes it is other people who actually pay the price for some people's entries (online).

[Inyan]

Just how much are these other people paying and why are they getting paid to disseminate information? Trucha, your losing me. But thats not always hard to do. If your inferring that Mutant might be feeling negatively affected by my post then my sentiment still stands. It's all good. Of course, you could counter with, "It's always good till someone gets hurt." But, I assure you my feelings are genuine whether they are taken that way or not. Agreed, online communication is not always the best even when two people's first language is the same language. Am I following you? Or am I lost in the woods?

Edited December 29, 2008 by Inyan

[mutant]

Heh, the apology was not for you, Inyan, as you clearly stated you're not the type of guy that would take offence, but to those 'other guys' who were possibly offended

now that comment might offend some people.

bold is mine

truth is I was feeling generous compuctions by such a thing??? nuh not-even-close

and, to avoid more confusion, I think trucha is responding to micromegas on topic...

[Chiral]

Whats this thread about again....?

H.

[mr b.caapi]

I was given a heap of mixed fresh seed from peru a couple of years back, germination rate was near on 100% and i have now got a heap of them in various spots around my house. All have different looks about them, a couple of them have a real "blue" colour , some have long spines,others short... a real mixed bag i must say.

[Inyan]

Post some pictures cappi! I love blue forms simply because I like the color Blue. I'm taking the seed was taken from several different cacti? Pictures of mom's available or records kept?

As for the other comments... I'm about as lost in these woods as I can possibly get.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Inyan

[trucha]

Inyan, I will confirm my attempted pun had nothing to do with the post of yours or of Mutant but the one preceding it by Micromegas.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Whats the most potent cacti you've come across?