Guest Thelema Posted August 13, 2002 yes, he did it via chromatography Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted August 13, 2002 WA - I wasn't having a go at you!! and you opinion is respected. I just find a lot of people will try to apply only their own experiences to other people's problems and as is the case with depression, the multitude of vastly different symptoms and underlying problems simply leaves to big a field to try and cover with a single experience. I think ruby has taken the most important step of all in dealing with anxiety/depression etc, which is to want to learn about it rather than putting her faith in 'the system'. None of these symptoms are ever treated well by simply popping a pill on prescription. They all require a much broader approach, including (as you said) lifestyle changes. These states work on a feedback loop (biosynthesis > trigger event > release > binding > reuptake > and so on) and you can enter and manipulate the loop at any stage. Much of what i focus on is the pharmacology side of things which involves the biosynthesis, binding and reuptake. However just as important are the trigger events. No amount of stored serotonin is going to be of any use if we don't triggers its release. Ditto for dopamine, which is where your exercise is a prime example. I think I responded a bit critical because I get so many people trying to tell me that you can simply fix such diverse problems with some aromatherapy or a daily walk (please keep in mind that I deal with severe cases including suicidal people almost on a daily basis). Sure, these will help to a great extent, but in severe cases (and Ruby does appear to be severe) these are minor things to contemplate later on - in the recovery phase. I am not entirely sure why you felt your free speech was impeded though.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted August 13, 2002 . [This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted August 14, 2002 but don't you think you should look at your own personal issues, and find out what's really causing your anxiety/panic problems?? rather than depending on herbs and tablets to temporay fix your problems WarpedAstro, I do appreciate your suggestions, but this has been going on for at least 10 years for me (more like as long as I can remember but I was diagnosed with 'unipolar depression' at 19). I HAVE vastly changed my lifestyle, my value system etc, and it's helped a lot. I was a basket case throughout my late teens/early 20s ~ drank heavily and constantly, 'doctor shopped' for benzos, basically tried to wipe myself out every night. I've also been on and off SSRIs for 10 years, under the direction of a shrink (a pretty good one). I'm generally pretty well these days, however I have a young baby which means sleep deprivation and stress. I don't think my 'issues' will ever be completely resolved, only managed, and I am looking at more natural ways to do that. I actually believe that my highly-strung nature is genetic ~ both my parents suffer from anxiety and depression. So if it's possible, I think I have a biological shortage of serotonin or something... Oh and yes, I should exercise more. "Explaining to him that this is exactly the same stuff we used to get when coming off amphetamines then makes him realise that this is just adrenaline sideeffects and not him going insane. The visuals are still there, but he knows the source and has some control over it eventually. That is usually enough to calm him down." Torsten, yeah, knowledge is definitely power over these things. That's why I am excited about learning about serotonin and other brain chemicals, and why I am so amazed that I haven't looked into it sooner. When I first had panic attacks I thought I was going insane ~ I was actually put on anti-psychotics (plus anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs) by the first shrink I saw. Needless to say I got worse... And was just told to up the dosage! Anyway, even though I still freak out, I recover a lot quicker and I am able to maintain some perspective. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty [This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 13 August 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WarpedAstro Posted August 14, 2002 heheh...dunno why I'm laughing....I didn't felt that my speech was impeded, I must have typed/written/explained in the wrong way...seems I must have got bit off the track as usual....don't worry about it torsten... Ruby, 10 years?? whoa.. thats a long time, actually you remind me of my best mate, she has some polar or whatever its called type of problems, and she was going thru emotional stages, wiping herself out every night on Heroin, doctor shopping for strong valium and some potent seditives, and was on cocktails of anti-depressants, etc...she was one of the nastiest person I have ever met, but I just ingored her emotional outburst, stood by her either she liked it or not and about 9 months ago, she got preagant, asked me to be the baby's godfather, which I naturally accepted, and since she found out she was having a baby, she seem to be "sane" not in some emotional breakdown, stopped taking anti-depressants, and all that shit, I didn't really understand how all this strange stuff happened, how she found out that she's having a kid, and with snap of fingers, she was in her old self before her "heroin period" and her baby was born last week, and I am very curious if she will be staying in her old self, or post-preagency will cause her to slip back in her emotional ways or improve her life a lot?....I am bit worried, as I am not willing to put up with her emotional outbursts.....I have had to put up with lifetime worth of that shit last year.. I guess there's the only way to found out is wait and see.....anyway..I was only giving a suggestion but I wasn't aware of your full history...now you have explained to me now...hope you will find something that will improve the balance or whatever in your life....I guess it's important that everyone has that balance, it's not easy specially when we live in ever changing crazy world... ..I have noticed (I am off the track here again) I just noticed that a lot of people nowdays, specially who live in the cities, are now "living to work" not "work to live" know what I am saying here??...crazy world we live nowdays.....whoa!!!!!! better get off and take some kava tablets...arrgghhhhh!!!! (only kidding) Also, hey torsten, I am curious what happened with my experience with 5-HPT that I explained eariler?? you know why?? I was coming down like a tonne of bricks, I was on cocktails of fuck knows what speed-related tablets, it made me feel bit more shitter mood than usual (when I was coming down)...I think I consumed 2 tablets of Dr.Vera's Formula 5-HPT from some Brisbane based store that a friend got it from.... or you think its more likely that my effects from the night of chemical cocktails or the 5-HPT??? it was horrible feeling after consuming thise tablets, specially those ringing ears...I was in hell for about hour tops.....man I don't want to go back to that hell ever again.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted August 14, 2002 "she was one of the nastiest person I have ever met" LOL! I don't think I've ever been nasty, even in my darkest moments... I've always directed it inwardly... Not that you were suggesting that, but yeah. ------------------ http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted August 14, 2002 WA, I don't have much experience with 5HTP, but I presume it would have a pretty immediate effect on loodressure, especially if adrenaline was keeping it high. The sudden fluctuations will cause the ringing and also a general feeling of neither here nor there - a struggle of two states. It's kinda like trying to get to sleep when too excited, but much worse. Also the sudden increase in serotonin would have antagonised your dopamine (lowered it), so you would go into states of dopamine depression. YOur dopamine would have been depleted considerably by the drugs in the first place. generally coming down from speed you should take tyrosinef irst, until THAT stimulation/euphoria wears off. Then take 5HTP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted September 15, 2002 Hey all, I was re-reading this thread and something caught my attention: "I still have the original plants (6 years old now) and many of their clones"- Torsten Ok, I was told that they dont survive freezing so do you bring them indoors for winter? If so what outside temp. is your signal to bring them inside? What are the max. and min. growing temps? For growing it as a perennial do you have to take any extra steps, like preventing seed formation? How big are those 6 year olds? The reason for all the questions is I grew these beauties this year, but never experimented with its pharmacological effects. Now that I quit smokin' pot I want something to keep me a little mellow while I re-equilibrate, but winter is about to start here so I want to find out the best way of growing them indoors. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted September 16, 2002 I am in the subtropics. lowest temp is about 4 deg C and only 3 or 4 times a year. the rest is well above 6 deg C. The temp is the only factor that seems to limit their life. Mine need a good feed every year or they will eb very poor looking. the appear to be heavy feeders and totally leach their immediate surrounds in one season. my plants are small. a brug has grown so huge in the last few years that it shades most of them whereas before they were fully exposed. I doubt they grow much bigger than about 1m (1.3 incl flowerspike), but mine are only 40cm at the moment (winter / pruned). I have established many plants from clones of this set of 6. I think the best way to overwinter them in coldareas is to take a few little cuttings and grow them under lights indoors. The in spring you can take heaps of cuttings all at once from these stock plants. Once again, at the end of the season you take some nice cuttings and bring them inside for the next year..... That way the genetics would be pretty much identical over many years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted September 17, 2002 . [This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted September 17, 2002 no fur on splendens as far as I know.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Thelema Posted September 17, 2002 splendens is unremarkable as far as salvias go. everyones time could be more wisely spent researching other salvias. Apart from my one mild experience, i have achieved more consistent and pronounced effects from other salvias. Since no-one seems to be interested however in my bioassay reports on this remarkable species, let me just leave it at this for the time being Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted September 17, 2002 . [This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted September 17, 2002 "attempting a crude extract [acid..." I think you might be a bit mixed up, the active constituents here are not alkaloids- hence no acid or base should be required, in fact it would probably destroy the active principles. If you want to experiment with extractions I'd suggest starting your experiment series with a simple alcohol or methanol extraction of the dried plant material, followed by evaporation of the solvent, preferably without boiling. Of course you could use acetone, like Torsten did, to see if it works when you do it- after all one failure out of one attempt does not scientifically prove that it wont work. And remember to post your results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted September 17, 2002 . [This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John_Barleycorn Posted September 18, 2002 Originally posted by Auxin:Of course you could use acetone, like Torsten did, to see if it works when you do it- after all one failure out of one attempt does not scientifically prove that it wont work. And remember to post your results. Acetone works, but whether it is optimal, I can't say. My test monkey still hasn't worked out how to smoke enough leaf without having a near-death asthmatic experience. For Electro's benefit, the product is a goo. I would also direct people's attention to some of Alchemist's posts where he/she was attempting to isolate salvinorin crystals using a combination of a quick acetone extract, followed by what looked to be a recrystallisation from alcohol. For some reason, a lot of the detail was subsequently deleted. Alchemist, if you are listening, did you possibly have a re-think about the procedure? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted September 18, 2002 Originally posted by John_Barleycorn: Acetone works, but whether it is optimal, I can't say. what makes you say that????? have you tried acetone for this salvia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John_Barleycorn Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by Torsten:have you tried acetone for this salvia? Whoops, sorry, I haven't tried acetone on this species. Only on Sal. Div., back when it was legal of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted October 20, 2002 Ok, are the dwarf S. splendens sterile or do I just have bad luck? Mine were flowering most of the summer and all of the fall, and not one seed was produced as far as I saw. I took some cuts and the plants/seeds are easy to find in stores, so thats not the problem, but I wanted to see what the F2 would look like damn it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 21, 2002 not sure about the dwarfs, but I know the multicoloured 'sizzler' series is sterile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted October 26, 2002 OK, I'm dumb. They were producing seeds, I just had not seen them. For the record 'they' are dwarf hybrid S. splendens. One hybrid was 'Maestro' and the other is unknown, but looks identical to the Maestros. And yes, I do intend to do a sublingual bioassay on the Maestro hybrid before they freeze to death. Assuming I remember to do it I should be posting the results within a week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted October 28, 2002 For the benefit of people in sydney: I think i came across some s.splendens today ... They looked like all of sab's photos (are flowering at the moment) ... Half looked to be miniatures 15 - 25 cm high, the other half were 35 - 60 cm high.. The garden is almost entirely planted out with them... Where: the RAAF Memorial garden at chatswood, across from the Interchange building & sydney water, near the railway station. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
