i can't believe it's not moroccan hashish / opium

[username]

Hi -oh, hang...on...mind your shoes... ahhh, thats better! i was just wondering if anyone can shed some light on these two products listed in the shaman-australis shop (i can't believe it's not moroccan hashish and i can't believe it's not opium). i wonder what they contain, their intended use etc. thanks.

[hebrew]

why the ?

[username]

why the ?

i've never seen such a thing...why not?

[nabraxas]

i wonder what they contain, their intended use etc

i believe the contents are a trade secret, & they're intended to be used as substitutes for the real thing, except the hash can't be smoked through a water pipe as the actives are water soluable---if i remember correctly.

try doing a search.

[stonewolf]

I've heard they're a waste of time, real hash having at least 10 times the effect. I havent heard anything about "i cant beleive its not opium" though.

[Trip Dr]

Well of course they arent going to be as good as the 'real' thing. Real hash and opium are illegal, these i think are supposed to be as close as a legal alternative as you can get. The hash does give effects. I found the opium a little hard to smoke as it turned into oil very easily, but you could get around this by spotting i suspect. Both smell wonderful!

[Torsten]

They are one of our biggest sellers and most are return customers, so they must work for quite a few people. No, they are not as strong as the real thing and they are not exactly like the real thing, but both products have many of the characteristics of the real materials.

Most who fail to get effects are not smoking them right (small units smoked hot and in one hit - never use a large unit and try to take in multiples hits). Also, never smoke through water. I can't believe how many people fail to follow that simple instruction and then complain about the quality . DO NOT SMOKE THROUGH WATER. A bong is a great idea, but make sure it has no water in it.

The notHash, small balls (or better discs) can be smoked in or on anything.

Real opium melts to almost liquid, so the notOpium does that too. It's great when put on a bit of any herb in a cone. It melts through the herb and smokes very easily that way.

For all other information do a search. There has been plenty written about them. Keep in mind we almost doubled the potency soon after the initial release. Our guinea pigs obviously were a little too sensitive, but field research indicated that an increase in potency was not a risk.

They do not work on people who take benzos.

They are a legal alternative for those people and those times when the real thing is not appropriate. ie, they will not let you fail a drug test!!

We find that half to one drink pleasantly enhances the effects.

[sobriquet]

For all other information do a search. There has been plenty written about them. Keep in mind we almost doubled the potency soon after the initial release. Our guinea pigs obviously were a little too sensitive, but field research indicated that an increase in potency was not a risk.

They do not work on people who take benzos.

Hi Torsten. If I was still a smoker I might have tried these.

Interesting that they don't work on people who take benzos. Do you mean that people who've taken benzos for a while and stopped won't get an effect or do people need to be on them in order to cancel the effects?

Benzos stimulate GABA receptors which then cause depression. So I'm not sure what the mechanism of action of these must be.

Even if I had tried them I might have been a little weary of the secrecy of the ingredients, though of course I understand that decision to protect a trade secret. Is there an agency one must lodge the information with or is this a non-issue? I'm thinking along the lines of.... say if someone had a major allergic reaction and died from it for instance?

Anyhow it sounds like an interesting formula. I'd seen many ads back in the day when I read High Times for various hash and herbal MJ simulants but because they were always overseas suppliers I never bothered ordering, and when you have locally grown heads then it didn't seem worthwhile, but your angle with the drug testing makes sense.

Good luck with them. I'm sure they took alot of effort to work out.

[Shroomie the Shaman]

They are one of our biggest sellers and most are return customers, so they must work for quite a few people. No, they are not as strong as the real thing and they are not exactly like the real thing, but both products have many of the characteristics of the real materials.

Most who fail to get effects are not smoking them right (small units smoked hot and in one hit - never use a large unit and try to take in multiples hits). Also, never smoke through water. I can't believe how many people fail to follow that simple instruction and then complain about the quality . DO NOT SMOKE THROUGH WATER. A bong is a great idea, but make sure it has no water in it.

The notHash, small balls (or better discs) can be smoked in or on anything.

Real opium melts to almost liquid, so the notOpium does that too. It's great when put on a bit of any herb in a cone. It melts through the herb and smokes very easily that way.

For all other information do a search. There has been plenty written about them. Keep in mind we almost doubled the potency soon after the initial release. Our guinea pigs obviously were a little too sensitive, but field research indicated that an increase in potency was not a risk.

They do not work on people who take benzos.

They are a legal alternative for those people and those times when the real thing is not appropriate. ie, they will not let you fail a drug test!!

We find that half to one drink pleasantly enhances the effects.

Thanks for that Torsten...I got some "can't believe it's not moroccan hashish" and was VERY dissapointed. Now I know why as I take benzos every day for epilepsy. 6mg of "Rivotril" a day to be exact, so obviously I'm not gonna get much from it. I thought it was a real let down but now I know why...It's my medications interfering with it! Can you tell me if the "not opium" will do much for me while being on 50mg of "Kapanol" a day???

[PhantomTurkey]

I tried the "cant believe its not Hashish" and got really bad nausea and breathing troubles for a couple of hours. I threw the rest out...that particular product is not for me.

[Torsten]

I thought it was a real let down but now I know why...It's my medications interfering with it! Can you tell me if the "not opium" will do much for me while being on 50mg of "Kapanol" a day???

I've tried to warn about the benzo cross tolerance as soon as we discovered it, but it was too late to put it on the packaging. Sorry.

The notOpium also has benzo cross tolerance to some degree, but I don't know if it has opiate cross tolerance.

[Torsten]

I tried the "cant believe its not Hashish" and got really bad nausea and breathing troubles for a couple of hours. I threw the rest out...that particular product is not for me.

do you get nausea from benzos too? were you on any medication [at the time]? I am always curious about such reactions. I realise a product can't be perfect for everyone, but often it is possible to track down the reason why it didn't agree with an individual and that makes it safer for others.

[PhantomTurkey]

do you get nausea from benzos too? were you on any medication [at the time]? I am always curious about such reactions. I realise a product can't be perfect for everyone, but often it is possible to track down the reason why it didn't agree with an individual and that makes it safer for others.

I had taken Valium a couple of weeks earlier for a medical condition but was pretty much alright when I tried it. I used a chillum and I mixed a small part of the block with some Damiana. It was like I was inhaling plastic into my lungs and it didnt agree with me so I discontinued use. I had previously used real hashish a few years ago with no adverse reactions. Maybe the smoking method (ie small chillum pipe) was wrong but it definitely didnt agree with me.

Edited September 14, 2007 by PhantomTurkey

[herbal_hindsight]

Hi, I can respect you wanting to hold onto the recipe for this hashish so you can monopolise the market for it, however, i am sure i am not the only one who likes to know what he/she is putting into your body/mind.

Atleast with real hash i know exactly what im consuming as i've usually made it myself... however... since this herbal hashish is claimed to be totally legal and safe... why not tell us what is in it?

I am pretty sure there is a law somewhere that would force you into revealing these herbs as you are selling it for human consumption!

"Made from a selection of special herbs and extracts, this is the closest thing to real Moroccan Hash that could possibly be legal. Does not contain cannabis. Legal in all Australian states and all other countries."

"Please enjoy in moderation. 2g will pleasantly inebriate 2-3 people. Do not consume with alcohol. Do not consume if you have liver damage. Do not exceed 5g per person per week. Discontinue use if you develop undesirable side effects. Do not smoke through water."

The biggest thing that jumps out at me here is the section saying "Do not consume if you have liver damage. Do not exceed 5g per person per week."

What could possibly be in this preparation that could pose as a threat to someone with a damaged liver??? This is a concern to me [my liver is fine btw] and why the warning not to consume anymore than 5g per person, per week? Why? What is in this preparation that obviously have a heavy effect on the body if over-used [what is building up in the body or what is being depleted or both?]

I'm not asking for the ingredients to be publicly displayed... PM me if you like if you know... I'm not out to destroy your monopoly, I just like to know what I am going to put into my body and I am well aware that just because something is labeled as being legal doesn't make it any safer than something that is illegal.

Just one last thing, you have obviously marketed this product to be consumed but to my knowledge aren't you required to get the permission/approval of the TGA to sell something to be consumed by a human unless you put a warning on the product noting it isn't approved by the TGAso consume at your own risk.

If you could shed a little light on this for me It'd be very appreciated!

Thanks

Edited December 16, 2007 by herbal_hindsight

[Francois le Danque]

this has all been discussed, use the search engine. (finally, its ME who gets to say it!)

i wouldnt recommend smoking 5g of anything in a week actually smarty man, though around here im sure it isnt unheard of

[Torsten]

Hi, I can respect you wanting to hold onto the recipe for this hashish so you can monopolise the market for it, however, i am sure i am not the only one who likes to know what he/she is putting into your body/mind.

Oh, so you read all packets of everything you consume? What about the ingredients below 1% that don't need to be listed? In fact you don't know shit about what you are consuming unless you make everything yourself. You don't know what's in the softdrinks you consume, you don't know what's in the biscuits you eat and you don't know what's in that pizza you just ordered yet you want to know exactly what is in the recreational smoking product you buy? Fair enough. Don't buy this product then cos I have no intentions of telling.

why not tell us what is in it?

How many potent, tasty and hash-like products have you seen on the market? Why should I divulge 15 years of hard work? It's not you or most other consumers I don't want this information to have. Fake Hash is big business overseas and I don't see why they should get rich on this product. Let's keep this for the australian market.

I am pretty sure there is a law somewhere that would force you into revealing these herbs as you are selling it for human consumption!

If I am forced to I will just sell it as incense [which won't require ingredient listing].

The biggest thing that jumps out at me here is the section saying "Do not consume if you have liver damage. Do not exceed 5g per person per week."

What could possibly be in this preparation that could pose as a threat to someone with a damaged liver???

One of the active constituents is metabolised by the liver [like many many other things]. Because of the fact that I am not listing ingredients I feel it essential to warn people that the product requires metabolism by the liver. The load is probably no different to that of alcohol, but for someone with Hepatitis even that could spell lots of trouble.

and why the warning not to consume anymore than 5g per person, per week? Why? What is in this preparation that obviously have a heavy effect on the body if over-used [what is building up in the body or what is being depleted or both?]

No build up of anything. The reason is the same as above. It is not healthy to consume somethng that puts a load on your liver everyday. Just like it is not healthy to drink alcohol every day.

Everything else has been covered in this and other threads.

may I suggest that if you feel at all dubious about this product to simply forget about it and make your own.

[PD.]

So much for full disclosure to help in regards with harm minimisation.

Dont tell ppl whats in it, it may be giving out too much information. A populus with information is a dangerous one right? Especially people that will profit from your own idea, OH NO.

Protect that mighty dollar.

[mu!]

pipe down PD, unless you tell me whats in these pods that makes em so darn good

[herbal_hindsight]

Well I've got to admit Torsten, I am sadly disappointed.

Your doing some wonderful things for the community with SAB with products like this along with all the others, it's just sad that at the end of the day your still worried about the all mighty dollar.

Kinda defeats the entire project doesn't it. I thought SAB was merely an aid to the community and not a profit based company.

Kinda contradicted there mate....

What is the difference between a big evil corporation putting undisclosed ingredients into food items that people are unknowingly consuming and potentially becoming ill from and you sitting back in your corner unwilling to disclose the ingredients of your hash [that could potentially do the same]

Try practicing what you preach... I kinda expected the response I got but didn't think you'd be such an arse about it.

You must be such a nice bloke... ahh sorry... but you said it's legal and it's safe so I guess it doesn't matter what i am putting into my body and you just confirmed my entire point about wanting to know.

The fact I don't know what is in all the food i eat, unless I make it myself, is indeed a big worry, which i am doing more and more, but the fact that your 'helping the community' with your products, that you choose to keep the ingredients from, changes everything i guess.

Let's not worry about profit here, your helping your community. Let's not worry about potentially harming someone who 'may' have an allergic reaction to one of your ingredients, your helping your community.

Sounds to me like your more so helping yourself, it's a shame... and kinda off target I'd say from helping the community.

I understand it took you 15 years to create such a product so IMO isn't that more reason to share it with your "community" so it doesn't take them 15 years as well. Call me crazy?

This is one of the major problems with humanity.

We claim to be a community but at the end of the day only care about the profit we get ourselves. [greed/control]

Don't worry

I won't be buying this product again, despite the fact I like it, as I was hoping even just a tiny bit, you might be kind enough and RESPONSIBLE enough, to shed some more light on this stuff.

I saw the chance to find out SOMETHING I'm putting into my body that was made by someone else and once again failed.

I thought you might have bit more of a soul than an evil corporation.

Thanks buddy!

Keep up the great work...

You had your chance to be an honest, caring and responsible member of the community but instead due to the powers of greed and control you choose to keep such information to yourself.

Your choice, but just reminds me why I struggle to contain my faith in human-kind.

BTW I will be making my own from now on, and i will know every single thing that is in it, it's called Hash, it contains THC and I can at least consume it with trust and confidence even it some people claim it's not good for me.

and yes it will show up on drug tests, but i avoid those like the plague. But if i am going to be drug tested it's inevitable THC will come up anyway as it stays in your system for so long and there is nothing wrong with smoking a bit of green from time to time.

What's good for them probably isn't good for me and vice versa.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Rocking New Year!

Are you aware of the control you have over people by not disclosing the contents of this product you know they are going to consume to get 'high'

Just coz it's legal doesn't mean it's safe. It's probably just me but I really do think your being very irresponsible just like the dicks I read on another post feeding there animals shrooms and such....

ARE WE YOUR GUINEA PIGS?

Who gives you that right?

[Torsten]

Nobody is asking you to buy this product. In fact as moronic as you are about this stuff I think I might just start exporting it. Fuck you.

How do you think this website keeps running if not for the $$? Most of the people here don't even buy from SAB or support this service in any meaningful way.

We offer about 600 products and I share all information on every single one of them EXCEPT ONE. What have you contributed? Oh, I see, 4 posts. Have you created ANYTHING that helps the other people here? Seriously, piss off if all you do is complain. I make no secret of the fact that I am not disclosing the ingredients of this product, so don't buy it if you don't like that fact. At least I don't claim to list all ingredients and then hide those under 1%.

And PD you hypocrite, why did you ask me to keep the source of the super pedro secret if protecting ones knowledge is apparently not in line with your morals?

We all have to live off something and too many of my ideas and plants have already been stolen by lazy competitors who don't use their profits to further the community. I'd rather stop making this product than to give away another one of my ideas. If this product had therapeutic value then I'd feel very different about it, but this is purely for fun and as an alternative to illegal drugs. No one NEEDS to take this - no one will be worse off by not having access to it.

[_e_]

fuck people really shit me some times!!! (more and more it seems)

Edited December 21, 2007 by ({E})

[_e_]

let the trolls eat each other i say!

Edited December 23, 2007 by ({E})

[_e_]

bah

Edited December 23, 2007 by ({E})

[apothecary]

If you are gonna keep it secret then you must expect people to constantly ask/guess what's in it, but the fact of the matter is that smoking blends without listed ingredients are very common in this community, for a variety of reasons.

I felt very honoured/excited to receive a small amount of tantras latest unnamed blend at EGA, as did everyone else I spoke to about it. When darcy first began creating smoking resins and asked for guinea pigs there was much more demand than supply!

There's no gun to anyones head, if you are worried by the possible consequences of smoking this substance (despite it's popularity), the lack of disclosure in regards to ingredients/recipe, or have some perceived ethical problem with making money (which incidentally, provides you with a platform to complain!) from this lack of disclosure, then don't use the product.

That's right little guinea pig, the cage door is open.

[herbal_hindsight]

WOW!

Now I am going to start off by saying that obviously you guys/girls put shitloads of work into this site, let alone the amazing ethnobotanical work you do. I meant you no major disrespect but in return you have been incredibly nasty to me.

Fuck this for a joke... forget i said anything, i'll probably never mention this hash again and btw, the people who smoked it and thought it was real hash have obviously never smoked REAL hash. It owns. Not saying this is bad stuff... it's just not the same as the real deal. [obviously]

Kudos for making a nice herbal resin Torsten... no need to be such an arrogant fuck who is incredibly defensive about something, myself, personally, would share with everyone I could. [that's just me]

It's at least nice to know there is absolutely no therapeutic value to it.

Perhaps it would have been better off asking a question like

"Do any of the ingredients in this product have any worthy therapeutic value to them?"

My bad

Thank you so nicely for calling me a troll... that's a first and i've been on dozens of forums before.

Kudos to you!

It's nice to see we have a happy, friendly, understanding community here.... amongst all the infinite amounts of knowledge.

I'll continue to read your forum, share any ideas/experiences/photos/strains/etc with people when the time arises but fuck challenging people like you. There is nothing to be gained from this for either of us.

I don't need to be treated like this, no-one does.

I liked to think people within this field were generous, big hearted people, which it sounds like most of the time you are.

No need to insult me like that though... ever heard of constructive criticism?

The fact your willing to drop it all and just export the product all coz of a few peoples posts is pretty harsh as well Torsten.

Something else must obviously be stressing you out.. and i am sorry to hear that. Hope it comes good for you in no time!

I don't like seeing anyone unhappy... that's not the world I want to live in.

BTW ({E}) I am aware there is a lot more to Cannabis/Hash than THC. I only mentioned that as it's the main active ingredient. I have done years of research on the physical and mental effects of this amazing plant and will probably never stop researching it as new data is discovered all the time [both pro's and con's].

Please don't treat me like I am an ignorant fool, not cool.

The body and mind is all about balance, hence me wanting to know the ingredients of "i can't beleive its not hash"... knowing the effects cannabis has on the balance helps to re-balance, the same goes with this product. But fuck it... it's much easier just not smoking it... i never imagined asking a simple question would blow up like this!

and one last thing, why attack me because I have only made 4 posts?

I have only just recently joined this forum, obviously not realising how i might possibly get treated if I dare challenged the ingredients of a herbal hash product? Like woah man... all i'm gonna say is you've got every right to get pissed off but why reflect it over to me? It's called constructive criticism... give me some time I'm sure i will make a lot of posts on this site.... mostly I have just read a lot of the posts you have to offer and haven't really felt the need to contribute to most of them as they are so incredibly complete... KUDOS to the site but you gotta work on your temper a bit dude....

I Hope everyone on this site has a great Christmas and an even better New Year!

I love seeing sites like this existing... the way the world is going [lets hope not] but it's possible they may not exist like they do for much longer...

Australia has well and truly become a police state and isn't showing any signs of changing too much despite the fact howard is out of power, I am not yet convinced Rudd is any better. It is still early days, but Labor backed the nation wide ban on pipes and bongs so that convinces me straight up.... it's bloody pathetic...

I hope we can come to at least agree with one another on some kind of level on here sometime... I never meant for this sort of reaction.... I just see a contradiction and point it out... isn't that my birth right? No offence intended... just curious as to wtf is in the little black block of legal hash.... I probably wouldn't give a shit if it didn't do anything...

Anyway.... This conversation doesn't need to continue as no-one here is going to gain anything from doing so... no hard feelings...

Peace Out!