Phleb protection/preservation/action

[BlackDragon]

Wasnt trying to divide us with that comment, just stating that different people hold different views on a similar topic....

I happen to know one very plant savy person who has 10+ years of re-veg experience and I know he has had little if any problems once established in the ground in the right location... Dont narrow your options too much in this regard Hopefully those mature beauties share some seed this season.... or next....

The cost of the t/c is mounting very high, and the simple process of having a more environmently adaptive strain of this species would be of high advantage. It(seed)really has to be spread around for this to be effective, natural environmentalselection at its best. Then those 'reliable' samples can be work on and compared once the protocols have been finalised. We may even find a gall resistant strain.... who knows the posibilities...

[_e_]

Wasnt trying to divide us with that comment, just stating that different people hold different views on a similar topic....

Life would be very boring if everyone agreed on everything, and even more boring if we either agreed or didnt agree for the same reasons.. I totally agree that we have a difference in opinion, but disagree with the assumption that im either a botanist or a spiritualist, or moreso of one then the other.

I happen to know one very plant savy person who has 10+ years of re-veg experience and I know he has had little if any problems once established in the ground in the right location...

Thats very promising, perhaps one day you or this person could share this experimenting with the community so we might be able to learn from the observations and results.

And i agree seed needs to be spread around and as far as i know it was spread around quite judicially on a global level when it was available.

Edited August 3, 2006 by min(E)rval

[BlackDragon]

Maybe we should 'sticky' a "phleb guidelines" thread?

Moreso for a helping hand to prevent the ill treatment of seed and plants, I mean if the seed is out there and in peoples hands already, one thing we can do is to provide some simple information on how to get the most from their seed. And Im sure if we weave enough information throughout the guidelines, then the plight regarding the rarity of this species will perhaps shine thru... maybe

Perhaps someone can begin work on soil innoculants also, if needed Any thoughts on their usefulness here?

PS; I will chase up what exact methods were used with this sucessful grow too, gimme a bit to track him down....

[spunwhirllin]

I suppose this question would be within the realm of ''preservation''.

My 5 yr old phleb is itching to give up quite a few cuttings,has anyone worked out whether or not cuttings are a viable means of propagation of phlebs?

I read awhile ago that its difficult,but it only takes one success to change everything,any success stories out there?

Airlayering softwood is probably going to be my first go.

Opinions?

Insights?

Thanks a bunch.

[Torsten]

I managed to keep a cutting alive in rockwool and under a dome for many months (I posted about this at the time). Don't remember how long exactly, but I think it was over 9 months. The cutting even grew a little, but it never produces ANY callus tissue whatsoever.

The professional conservation propagators at the botanic gardens told me that they have succeeded with acacia cuttings in only 1% of all species tried. That's 3 species. That was a few years ago and ther emight be more now.

[_e_]

Torsten,

Do i really 'preach' at people?

How can you preach to noobs that it is not OK to harvest this plant if elders of the community provide justification to do so? I think before we continue to rant at strangers for what they are doing we need to look at our own community.

wasn't saying you should not have posted this thread. My point is that we need to look at each other first before we start preaching at those outside the community

and do u still think i have become weak or hypocritical in my approach and attitude to this issue?

I still dont understand how my comments may have been misconstrued in such a way?

Hmmm, you were not that forgiving in your initial post. Why the sudden weakness? I thougtht you were making a stand against taking phelbophylla material and now it seems you are OK with it as long as it is only certain people

[PD.]

I managed to keep a cutting alive in rockwool and under a dome for many months (I posted about this at the time). Don't remember how long exactly, but I think it was over 9 months. The cutting even grew a little, but it never produces ANY callus tissue whatsoever.

I have read that some acacia cuttings can survive for up to 24 months without forming any roots and putting on minimal growth.

The professional conservation propagators at the botanic gardens told me that they have succeeded with acacia cuttings in only 1% of all species tried. That's 3 species. That was a few years ago and ther emight be more now.

Would A. baileyana be on this short list T?

A friend has many times grown a prostrate form of baileyana via cuttings. She also mentioned that there are alot of acacias that can be grown quiet easily from cuttings, although the time of year can be a major factor in success.

She said the attitude that acacias are hard to propagate with cuttings was the reason there is so little success.

[Torsten]

Torsten,

Do i really 'preach' at people?

and do u still think i have become weak or hypocritical in my approach and attitude to this issue?

I still dont understand how my comments may have been misconstrued in such a way?

We all preach at times. Some more than others .

Your post title was "we need to take a stand against the illegal harvesting of this sacred...". So I think from that position it is not difficult to be regarded as preaching (and personally I am all for it).

It's also the discrepancy between the subtitle and your later refusal to take a stand against the harvesters (ie all harvesters, not just the most recent ones), which prompted me to think you have gone soft on your original intention.

[Chiral]

BUMP..

wow some of these older threads are absolutely captivating..the passion in this one is electric..nice..just wanna stick my big ugly nose in here and ask how is it all going with the Phlebs and the mountain, seeing as how this thread is 2yrs old ..be nice to know if there has been any improvement in the situation regarding this seemingly delicate Acacia. Its fascinating to me how it only grows in that one part of the world..that is a mind fuck..have to wonder about its origins and how that species came to exist.

I can certainly understand why you guys are so passionate about protecting it, and make your selves available to continue to preserve its existence.

As a side note to this whole issue..I have been gawking at net videos about shamans in South America etc..and of particular interest was when watching the elders harvesting bark and plant material I nearly died..picture this..Elder takes huge home made axe and slices full power into the side of a tree to rip off a huge slice of bark to which surely would have dire consequences on the trees health..I was ..well I don't really know what to say..I saw it time and time again on other videos..To me it does not look like they are practicing any ethical harvesting or showing any respect to the trees at all..Am I missing something here..To me that seems slightly arrogant and tells me that either they know that its okay cause they have done it that way for thousands of years without any consequences to species..or they just don't give a fuck..Shamans or Cavemans..fuckin weird to me that is.

anyways would be good to know how the whole Phleb thing is going..there are many of us out there waiting till the sun burns out, with our hands out waiting for a couple of seed so we can teach ourselves how this fragile little Acacia works. The bonus of that is that we can teach our kids about it and show them something truly interesting and point them in the right direction in life.

H.

[PD.]

be nice to know if there has been any improvement in the situation regarding this seemingly delicate Acacia

The mountain is like a huge granite island ;)

Well if the plants going absolutely crazy over the past two years is an improvement then yes there has been. I dont think the phleb is at all delicate as it grows in very harsh conditions from winter snow to searing summer temps. The main concentration of new plants are VERY large now but lots will die back im sure in the coming years as the plants mature due to the fact there was a huge number of seedlings growing in a concentrated area making alot of them very straggly plants competing against each other. The natural balance is taking care of everything the main concern was that there would be another lot of fires before these juveniles had a chance to set seed and regenerate the well depleted seed bank, all of which is no longer a concern in my opinion anyways. The fires cleaned up most of the gall although it remains on some plants/populations which i assume it always has considering this plant has been around for a long long time before we started to worry about it . Fires are needed to replenish this acacias life cycle afaic jusat like so many of its relatives and it was the holding back of seasonal fires to protect such assets as the chalet which caused problems in that regard as it is in these closely protected areas the phleb seems to be disappearing from while in other unprotected sites it is going absolutely nuts.

There was a HUGE amount of flowers this year although the seed set has been considerably low as compared to last year where the was only a small amount of flowers but there was a good seed set which is interesting.

I have only seen signs of harvesting on one particularly large plant in recent times, a large brach sawn off! but im sure parks will be in there again with the slashers clearing out the pathways which are getting a tad overgrown as this is common practise on the mountain (it is a tourist destination after all!), either way, there are very healthy populations that take hours to hike to or granite slopes that are just plain unaccessable to humans and due to that are safe from ppl wanting to harvest the plants or slash them to make tourists more comfortable, Phleb is safe on the island, itll be around long after we go.

as for home grown plants, think of cracks in a granite slab near a water course, deep dark rich mineral soil that is more often than not damp ;)

[Chiral]

Hah..wow I spent all day reading that old post and feeling gutted and miserable only to bump the thread and find out that all is well again..let us pray now and thank the lord for what we have..oh fuck that..Seriously glad that there is a positive outlook for those Phlebs..nice one Love it.

H.

[Uncle. S]

so does anyone have a guess at how long it will be before seed is available for the masses, not just the well connected super-gardeners? or is it never going to happen until this plant is no longer threatened, so that people can legally sell it? can someone maybe explain it in a pm if im missing something here? confusion!

[Chiral]

yeah man I agree ...where is the seed..?...stop pussyfooting around and hand out some seed...its all a bit too elitist and who you know...come on damn it some seeds...

H.

[gerbil]

Collection of seed is illegal anyway, on two levels from vague thinking, so even if that issue seems petty it's not the best thing to be flouting about on the net.

There's various info through threads over the years about where some seed has gone and a few plants are around in various locations, the latest batch i saw publicly on offer were requested to be preferentially grown in areas of similar ecosystem, montain granitic southern locations, but from recollection not an absolute necessity, but preferred given the small amount of seed around.

given the not overly understood nature of acacia flowering, seed set as well as grouped with the ever changing climate it's hard to say how long before large amount of seed is available IMO.

hope that helps a little.

Edited February 24, 2009 by gerbil

[Uncle. S]

well its a fair distance but i guess ill have to drive over and drag a few live ones back behind the ute. any other W.A sab members want a new phleb while im there?

[Mycot]

Forget it, collect a few seed if needed but no live plant(like many australian natives) ripped from the ground will survive transplanting, I can assure you of that.

Given that this is the case such an action would only show deep disrespect, acheiving nothing but destuction. If your already really skillfull at rooting difficult to root plants from softwood cuttings (acacias are known to be difficult to propagate in this fashion requiring high levels of rooting hormone success varying between species) perhaps with an aero-cloner then softwood cuttings may just possibly stand a chance although I haven't heard of it being successfully done with this species as of yet.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Mycot

[Chiral]

One of the better ways to preserve these endangered plants is to actually hand out as much spare see as possible and spread the growth of this rare acacia..who knows what we can learn from it and find out different growing teks for it...you'd be pissed if a serious fire went through and torched it all again and this time it didn't come back..if a few hundred people in various places have seedlings then that's a good thing.

H.

[PD.]

you'd be pissed if a serious fire went through and torched it all again and this time it didn't come back

I seriously doubt that would happen, the plants not coming back that is. There has been some serious seeding in certain areas the past few years so there is enough seed on the ground to enusre the survival if another fire hits the mountain. I missed the main seed drop again this season. Im close to the area but still far enough away to make it a pain in the arse to travel there every week or two during the right time to collect especially considering i dont drive and have to annoy someone else to drive me there.

[_e_]

well the property i grew up on and the 15 or so seedlings that had taken off there all went up in smoke recently... but the fire didnt reach the mountain (which is a good thing i guess although there is no fireload up there from what i can tell)

have heard that it is being harvested mre and more now that it is thriving and i urge ppl to go for more sustainable plants and also if they are visiting the mountain to limit their impact.

plant lov.e

[Chiral]

I seriously doubt that would happen, the plants not coming back that is. There has been some serious seeding in certain areas the past few years so there is enough seed on the ground to enusre the survival if another fire hits the mountain. I missed the main seed drop again this season. Im close to the area but still far enough away to make it a pain in the arse to travel there every week or two during the right time to collect especially considering i dont drive and have to annoy someone else to drive me there.

Yeah I was just chucking a drama queen routine...anything to get some seed.