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Guest reville

Sinicuiche - Heimea salicifolia

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Guest reville

Id very much like to invite comment on any experiences negative or positive or even nil

with this plant.

I thought that if we get good commentary and it stays on topic itd make a nice archive thread and a definite improvement on currently available literature

I have never tried it. I am looking to make an Ethanol tincture from it.

i believe that several forum members have had experience with it

Gomaos mentioned effects from smoking it.

Tst Tantra mentioned a recent experience and i believe that somewhere in the past there was a smoked 25X extract used with success.Ill try and pull any relevant info into this thread to make it a stand alone.

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I made a very strong tea from it once but found that it was so fucking bitter that I couldn't drink it. I managed about two or three sips. At first I thought that the herb must have had pesticide on it but apparently it's just how it tastes.

I tried evaporating the tea but I had put honey in it to mask the bitterness and it went mouldy very quickly. Pity.

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zu...tsk tsk,shame on you....the more bitterness in a brew of alkaloids the better!!.....hold your nose my friend be strong...and skull skull skull.....

as the old saying goes...."things that are good for you taste bad"

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HERES THE DEAL...

If bitter brews make you heave all you have to do is build up your bitterness tolerance. I have found that scantly sweetened fresh horehound leaf tea is good for this. Start with small sips and work your way up. Get used to strong unsweetened horehound tea and you can drink just about anything!

Another method is to meditate on physical detatchment and tolerance, but that doesn't work with everyone.

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eating a hot chili first helps to negate the bitterness. or an anaesthetic throat spray applied to the tongue wink.gif

to build up bitterness tolerance nothign can beat calea.....brrrrrrrr.

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Heh.... Rev... Just what I was looking for.... "ethanol tincture". Right out of the blue.

I have plenty of HEima growing.... and thought to do an extract... weird enough , finding info on the WWW was harder then I thought.... the almighty Google...didn't do it for me with a push of a button this time.

It was hard work typing various combinations of words just to come up with a water extraction method posted on Erowid.

Not sure when I will get my arse into gear do it. But I assure youthat I will keep SAb posted on my findings.

"Explore your world" Discovery channel!

smile.gif

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Gotta agree with you there big T, but maybe not to that extent. Dream Herb is pretty bitter. Two times I've tasted this stuff - the first time I had a pointless binge on every entheogen I had, and I ate about a gram of that stuff, floating in cold water !?! It wasn't exactly pallatable. Sorta imagine it woulda tasted even worse infused as a tea, but then again I was pretty blind at that point.

About half a week back I packed a pretty light cone of the stuff, the leaf being alot more dryish than pot, sorta a bit like dried eucalptus in its feel. The first toke wasn't all too bad, sorta tasted like pot I thought. Second toke wasn't the greatest, it is actually pretty hard to believe that just smoke can be bitter. Even with a bit of mint chewy the third toke was pretty unbearable. Overall pretty bad.

In case anyone is wondering, I went to sleep about 15 minutes later, and the cone was aboot 2/3 done, and my dreams were sorta a bit more weird. I usually dream alot, and have weird as ones, so the Calea didn't do ALL too much, definitely an effect tho. Maybe I'll do an extraction one day and test drive it.

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Just some ideas that occured to me:

If cryogenine (an alkaloid) is the main active part in Heimia, then maybe simple acid/base extraction is the way to go?

Another thing that could possibly matter is fermenting. Traditional sinicuiche drinks are usually fermented in the sun. Some other herbs that are usually smoked, e.g. tobacco, or stored dried, like tea, are also fermented (or cured) before drying. Has anyone tried to cure the leaves before drying them? would it make a difference?

I only tried traditional brewing method once with no noticeable effects, maybe the dose was insufficient (approx. 12g fresh leaves). I usually get definite muscle-relaxing effects and small distortons in sound perception when smoking plain heimia leaf or water extract, but no OEV or CEV at all.

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"If cryogenine (an alkaloid) is the main active part in Heimia, then maybe simple acid/base extraction is the way to go?"- Caldeye

Yup, I have yet to find the complete structure for vertine ("cryogenine") and the other alkaloids in heimia but what I have found suggests that they are chloroform soluable in the freebase form and water soluable in the salt form, just what you want for A/B ext. If you try it let us know how it works, and remember to be CAREFUL with pure alkaloids as they can easily be overdosed on. And keep/publish detailed notes with lots of numbers for the benefit of all.

"Traditional sinicuiche drinks are usually fermented in the sun."-

Caldeye

Nope, its not actually fermentation. Its a mixture of oxidative, enzymatic, photolytic, and combinatorial chemical reactions, but yeast is not involved. And yes, if you plan to do A/B extraction you should do this traditional sun-extraction method to start with and work from there.

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Just waiting for the summer, Reville.

Got some cuttings from Gomaos the other day.

Gomaos, just wondering if you had any positive/negative reports concerning your supply?

l8r Kai.

For you Sydney folk, I think someone mentioned there is heimia in the botanic gardens, also http://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/bgsearch indicates there is.

I'm not saying you should rampage the poor bush, but..

l8r k.

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There's also one of decent size in the Brisbane botanic gardens at Mt Cootha, sorry to blow your source Gomaos biggrin.gif

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ive had a few pea sized balls of 25* extract.

myself and a few friends downed em the went hiking in the forest.

didnt have a huge effect until we had a smoke of shiva.

i noticed that it took the anxiety type feeeling out of the smoke.

subtle,slightly dreamy.peaceful

need to give it a few more tries i think.

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Originally posted by Auxin:

Nope, its not actually fermentation. Its a mixture of oxidative, enzymatic, photolytic, and combinatorial chemical reactions, but yeast is not involved. And yes, if you plan to do A/B extraction you should do this traditional sun-extraction method to start with and work from there.

Wow, I never knew that! Could you share your references for this information Auxin? It may not be the quotidian alcohol fermentation but my understanding was that a tea was left for days in the sun. In most hot countries this will lead to fermentation by wild microorganisms unless there are very strong, broad-spectrum antibiotics present in the plant material.

[This message has been edited by theobromos (edited 05 July 2002).]

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"my understanding was that a tea was left for days in the sun."- theobromos

Usually it is only left in a sunny spot for 24 hrs, which is scantly enough time for it to start fermenting, much less ferment very far. I dont have my references on this handy right now, but I'll post 'em when I have time to track them down. But anyway this type of enzymatic/oxidative/photolytic/combinitorial processing is well known in other plant products (like black and oolong teas for instance) and has major impact on the final product. Some fermentation may well occur on occation, but from what I have heard this is not as essential as the other proceses, if at all. It also explains why it's almost required that the plant material is fresh, you need those sensative enzymes, polyphenols, etc. there for the stuff to 'cure' properly. This also helps explain why some dried leaves have no effect, and others have some effect. If the leaves are unbruised and flash dried the curing does not occur and the product has almost no effect, while if the leaves are bruised (thus allowing the reactions) and sun dried (ie slower and cooler) they have time to partially cure, and thus produce some effects.

In any case more research needs to be done.

Anyone with plants, research away smile.gif (I still havent got the smeggin' things to grow, so my hands-on research on this is being delayed.)

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Originally posted by darcy:

There's also one of decent size in the Brisbane botanic gardens at Mt Cootha, sorry to blow your source Gomaos :

Source of what? I'm not selling heimia foliage...and my seeds came from purple haze abuut a year ago.

Rev showed me that heimia once in the botanical gardens and I took some foliage home and fermented it (too long) and got NO effect. The only effect I ever had was from smoking.

BTW last time I went to the Botanical Gardens

ICOULDN'T EVEN FIND THE BLOODY THING just like I couldn't find the anandanthera and iboga-relative. I admit my eyes are pretty bad. REV WHEN ARE YOU COMING BACK HERE?

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One friend of mine, he lives in Argentina, he has told me that heimia grows wild over there.

does someone knows that argentinian heimia may work like mexican heimia??.

i am thinking to get some seeds from him.

[This message has been edited by sascacheuan (edited 07 July 2002).]

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Originally posted by Auxin:

Usually it is only left in a sunny spot for 24 hrs, which is scantly enough time for it to start fermenting, much less ferment very far.

You live somewhee quite chilly then, Auxin?

sascacheuan, do you know what species it is in Argentina?

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sascacheuan, do you know what species it is in Argentina?

When my friend told me that heimia grows in ARgentina i thought he was mistaken. I made a quick search at google and i found this adress:

here

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in Argentina it is most probably heima myrtifolia. which should produce the simmilar effects. (That is how I remember reading it somwhere, I think L.E.R seedlist)

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I've tried the tea using the tradional methods of one day sun exposure in a suntea type of jar and found it does have a nice relaxing effect although I didn't get anything else out of it.

It is interesting that blending or crushing the fresh leaves make for a very viscous solution as if a bit of gelatin was added.

Also the plant isn't a annual and very easy to grow even in hot climates and the seed pod, of which there are many, contains thousands of very tiny seeds of a blond color so its easy to think the pod hasn't properly developed the seeds due to the color, most plant seeds are black.

This isn't a invasive plant as it very much at home in a semidesert region and basic survival strategy is producing thousands and thousand of seeds.

Thumbs up as a sleeping inducer.

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Originally posted by devance:

Thumbs up as a sleeping inducer.

I tried using it for that, really good for muscle relaxation, but I had some problems getting asleep after smoking it. Sounds that one is used to and would normally not notice (e.g. birds twitting or cars passing by in the nearby street) become quite distinct and even annoying.

Probably this herb somehow affects the brain's ability to "filter" sounds we hear...

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Is there any activity in the twigs? Is it blended up with the leaves for a concoction or just the green leaves.

I'm asking this as my plant defoliated quite a bit from lack of water but I was still interested in making a drink.

Has anyone tried this?

E D

[This message has been edited by Ed Dunkel (edited 15 July 2002).]

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a correction to devance's post, white hemia seeds are not ripe, ripe seeds are black and should be picked when the pods are dry and crumbly.

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sass you naughty fellow, i see you've edited your profile. and a new career too.

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