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apothecary

Yopo

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Hi everyone,

Just so you know,

www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com has proper A. peregrina seed, I have just had a chat with the owner and he said they are definitely different.

Of course, I probably shouldn't bother, because importing such a product is completely illegal in this country!

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AFOAF bought some A.Colubrina seeds from here and got a very good strike rate, but they died a few weeks after...

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oh please!!!! I have received certificates of analysis, botanist certificates and personal guarantees from dozens of vendors and wholesalers and yet NONE of them have turned up to be peregrina. The market is saturated with misidentified seeds.

I am not saying BB definitely doesn't have the real thing, but as he buys from the same wholesalers as most others it is VERY unlikely. After having spent literally thousands of dollars trying to find the real thing I have come to the conclusion that all vendors prefer to play ignorant and cash in rather than doing some research.

Btw, I am havving the same issue with Mimosa hostilis seed. So far ALL samples I have obtains have turned out to be different species. Most of them are Mimosa pudica.

The whole industry sucks at the moment. There is no honesty and scientific accuracy anymore. Everyone is just happy to re-sell whatever crap they got lumped with.

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Torsten, yeah that's pretty much what I said (I've read your posts on the issue), I'm guessing the only real way to know is bioassay.

The seeds do look different. Do you know if there are variations in seed appearance of A. colubrina due to enviroment, much the same as Argyreia nervosa?

Any of our American friends want to assist here? I don't have the guts to import it, regardless of whether its peregrina or colubrina.

The Mimosa seeds are costing nothing, they are a generous attempt to get (at least what the vendor believes) Mimosa hostilis into the .au community, which I don't see anything wrong with. At worst a few people end up with a few M. pudica plants.

[ 07. July 2005, 14:29: Message edited by: apothecary ]

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Also, I guess until its more confirmed, people should disregard the original message?

*jedi wave*

These may or may not be the seeds you are looking for.

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Originally posted by apothecary:

The seeds do look different. Do you know if there are variations in seed appearance of A. colubrina due to enviroment, much the same as Argyreia nervosa?

Yes, seed varies considerably. Especially if the colubrina is grown in brazil - which is where the confusion originates.

I've also seen a lot of non-Anadenanthera seed being offered as peregrina. So, beware excessive variation

The Mimosa seeds are costing nothing, they are a generous attempt to get (at least what the vendor believes) Mimosa hostilis into the .au community, which I don't see anything wrong with. At worst a few people end up with a few M. pudica plants.

No harm as long as it comes with that disclaimer. Problem is that people grow a species believing they have the right one and then share/sell seed when it matures. By that time they are often not in the loop about the finer points of plant ID.

Basically, my initial instincts were right. if the young plants are very touch sensitive then they are bunk. If they develop LOTS of hook like spines then it is pudica. You can test this in a matter of two weeks - and hopefully before sending seed out to others.

Th final confirmation is if they flower within 6 months and the flower it mauve. Hostilis is white.

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im fairly sure the plants ive got are M. hostilis, they come from the person who supplies most of the harvested MHRB on the net, they dont show the closing up like you describe and from my experience with pudica (shit laods here) they look nothing alike. i was supposed to take photos for you torsten of the seed, i will do that :) one thing, some of my older plants their leaves changed color to pinks and yellows and they dropped their leaves, repotting them seemed to do the trick.

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Torsten Torsen - You wasted 1000's of dollars on getting your hands on A Peregrina... I could have flown and stayed down in Venezuela 3 times for that amount of cash.

We are constantly complaining about our tax dollars being well spent,... but this is the drop that overflows the bucket!

:D

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I'll make sure to touch test them and upload photos for ID before sending any seed out.

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brian - you are onto something there. After 10 years of chasing this and the ridiculous amounts of money wasted your suggestion looks very attractive.

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Okay.

I have seen a ton of M pudica around here (SE USA), and it looks nothing like the plants I have grown from seed obtained from ethnogarden labeled M hostilis. That seems to be a reputable source (even though I have misgivings re their labeling of cacti cuttings). The stuff they sell as hostilis is definitely not "sensitive plant." Anyway, they sell pudica seeds as well. I'm comfortable with them as a source.

Has anyone checked the wholesale source River's Source Botanicals (NM, USA) used for their peregrina. They claim it is the real deal. Hope so, since I'm growin' it.

[ 08. July 2005, 05:42: Message edited by: Pisgah ]

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Teh prblem is Pisgah that they all say they r the real deal. While ive only been searching for a shor ttime compared to Torsten for these seeds i have given up on all interenet sources as they r unreliable sometimes and as all that claim to sell peregrina are overseas its harder to order from anyway. I've decided the only way im going to get real peregrina is like Brian sed and go to Venesuala ans that region and actually find a person who really knows, get some bring them back here in by rectal insertion and germinate them. Then spread real true seed to people finally( also by rectal insertion :P ).

[ 08. July 2005, 08:41: Message edited by: ergoamide ]

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Psgah - I should mention that I am growing about 20 different species of Mimosa or misidentified mimosoids, including some true tenuiflora, hostilis and scabrella.

As I said about sources, most retailers will simply ask their wholesalers, but won't do any digging, sampling or research. Most supposed peregrina seed comes from Brazil and is certified by government botanists there. Problem is that they don't realise colubrina is grown as suburban ornamentals in some areas and the seeds presented appear to be from his stock. There is simply no way the seeds can be told apart. Only 2-3 year old trees can be ID'ed.

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ergoamide:

bring them back here in by rectal insertion

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Torsten:

Psgah - I should mention that I am growing about 20 different species of Mimosa or misidentified mimosoids, including some true tenuiflora, hostilis and scabrella.

I think we should swap some pictures., especially Tenuiflora (So called Mexican Mimosa Hostiles.) I have it,... I think.

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seed sold to me as Mimosa Hostiles from mexico

http://www.pbase.com/briansprock/image/11753610

This one is from seeds gathered in the Caatinga area of Brazil. This one has the destinct white flowers and spines that MimHostiles is supposed to have. http://www.pbase.com/briansprock/image/11753610

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Back on topic! YOPO - Anedenanthera Peregrina.

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/xcart/cat...ds-p-16290.html

This species is virtually identical to Anadenanthera colubrina in all aspects including foliage, seeds and habit. The only way to tell them apart appears to be the texture of the bark of mature trees and the fact that A.peregrina is frost sensitive. A.colubrina bark is smooth and dark while A.peregrina bark is rough and brown/greyish with warts and lumps. Native to Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela, it prefers tropical climates and is frost tender. Propagation is by seed using the same method as colubrina.

If this is the case that Peregrina has a rough lumpy bark then I can say that I have Peregrinas growing in my yard!!!! 4 of them. No flowers yet.

Nice article

http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/bank/i...php?ideaId=2371

[ 12. July 2005, 01:56: Message edited by: brian ]

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hey brian both your images are linked to the same page :) but i clicked next and your second plant appears to look very similar to mine :)

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the differences in the bark don't show for 2or 3 years at least (ie well after they flower). Colubrina isn't really that smooth either, but it doesn't have the bumps on it.

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