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The Corroboree

bogfrog

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Posts posted by bogfrog

  1. Posted

    ^

    Yes! Which is why it's fun to consider. No need for serious masks, or any masks at all.

    There may be as many answers as there are individuals, and none of them can be difinitively true, because we each uphold a personal reality, so make of the question what you may, there's no attachment to outcomes, I'm sure we're all beyond that point, but regardless of this inevitable uncertainty and intangibility, why not ask? Why can't it just be considered game? What harm could come of it?

    I have no idea where we are going. As I said with what I stated in the 'why are we here thread', I have two opposing world views living in my head.

    One is very connected to what Sally said, the rise of the machines and the fall of human power. But largely I think we have a influential role to play in this scenario, are we so innately self destructive that it has always been our intent to create artificial intelligence which will rapidly surpass us, perhaps enslave us, or perhaps just give us benign tasks and lives which appear to have purpose while the machines go about the real work?

    The second one, well, I don't know how to talk or write about that yet. Maybe I will get there sometime. I will try, that's for sure.

    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    Halycon, yeah I do get pretty pronounced ups and downs, which is as you say, a part of life. I guess that's what makes it interesting.

    When I was a child, I really did not want to be here, and for a long time I thought there was no point in being here at all.

    Now that I have had some more time to experience the good things in life, and had enough understanding of the not so good things that I developed the will to create changes, at the very least in my own life, and through the way my behaviour affects the lives of the people close to me, I am happy to be here.

    I propose this as a question to you all because it is of interest to me as a question, and your responses are of interest to me as a..I suppose, as an athropology enthusiast. Human culture is interesting because we are all a part of it, we create it through our thoughts and our actions. We may be individuals, and our influence may be very small, but we are still a part of the whole, so what we think does matter.

    I think there are some universalities in the cause for our existence as a race, and there are also individual "quests" which we each uncover in the course of our life time.

    This is my personal view at this point in time:

    I see two opposing paradigms which have existed in my mind, and I sometimes fall into stream A. when things get rough, but in general I lean towards stream B.

    A. the nihilistic view, that there is little to no meaning for our existence, that this is a pointless exersize in differentiated conciousness, and there's no challenges to overcome, no responsibility for living in a healthy, fulfilling way, and nothing to look forward to.

    Then there is B.

    B. is the stream I commit myself to. That we are here to uncover the fullness of the human experience. That every experience we have enables us to develop as individuals, who exist in a collective network, which is always exchanging information.

    I have come to develop the point of view that humans are fundamentally divine beings. This divinity is not expressed in most cases, and is only fully expressed by a very very very small number of people. But the core potential, I believe, is the same.

    Someone once gave me the metaphor of carving, or sculpting. We all begin with a block of stone, and gradually throughout our lives little fragments of this stone are shaved off. Some people work steadfastly at carving their stone, every day chipping away at the things that sheild them from knowing who they truly are. Others might not carve much off their block at all, they might carry the fears and sorrows and expectations of others with them through their entire lives, never uncovering their potential to be any different than they are. Some might live like this for a long time, and then an intensive experience may shake them up enough that they begin peeling off the layers that had them blinded. I think the progress does not need to follow a consistent, linear progression. I think a lot can be shaved off in a very short period of time, and maybe the reverse situation can occur, maybe someone can carve themselves into an exquisite sculpture, and then without truly realising what they are doing, rapidly begin layering concrete over themselves.

    ..tbc.. Just had a guest arrive..

    • Like 4

  5. Posted

    No existential crisis here mate... Well, nothing out of the ordinary anyway. I just reckon nows a good a time as any for pondering things that we know we can never really answer for certain, but we may find clues along the way which help give our lives meaning.

    And people seem to have their thinking caps on, which is better than playing Internet tyrant so I like to encourage more thinking with more q's. big Q's.

    • Like 3

  9. Posted · Edited by bogfrog

    Nah nah nah...totally didn't mean it like that! I was just thinking aloud, or rather in text. Not a defensive, just an aloud query of 'well do this and I know it's not entirely ideal'. Thinking about these things is one thing, making alterations to behaviour and future choice processes is a good next step right?

    Was more just using your thoughts as a diving board as they stuck out to me in the context of my evenings activities.

    This topic is deep water. Swimming in elephants indeed...

  10. Posted

    Psssh... Graft whenever you damn well feel like it. The 'too cold' claim is bullshit in my (maybe not so) humble southern opinion.

    I live in a climate where 13-15 degrees in the day and 5-7 degrees at night is normal spring/summer temps.

    When I was grafting mad I was grafting on trichos all year round with 80% success rates.

    Do it when you feel in the mood to, I say anyway.

  11. Posted · Edited by bogfrog

    Animals can have a deleterious affect on the environment, think of the feral cat in Australia, or the cane toad. Ecosystems tend to achieve a kind of balance over time, an intact and stable ecosystem is called something specific I can't remember the name of. Usually when it's out of place. This leads me to believe the possibility that humans may not be entirely natural, they may have been genetically manipulated. It seems strange to me that humans were around for at least 200,000 years and (apparently) did not develop the ability to do the damage we have. What happened since the last ice age that made us different? What happened to allow a massive expansion of agriculture and technology so fast - especially since it apparently emerged from a hostile, resource poor environment like the desert, yet didn't occur before despite the conditions being hostile and resource poor? Did we have this ability and time has erased the evidence?

    I digress.

    You say 'I digress', I say please continue. Who cares where this goes. I am fascinated by it all.

    Likes are insufficient for thanking you each for your thoughts. I won't reply to everything but I'm riveted.

    Fuck you guys are awesome. I'm glad I have Internet friends to learn from. Life would be much smaller otherwise.

    • Like 1

  12. Posted

    Hey Thunder two of your point set me off thinking:

    utilising our surroundings including our fellow animals in a self-serving and careless way is a facet of our success as a species and if not for that we'd be shivering in a lice-ridden ditch cramming bugs in our hole waiting for a cat to eat our family.

    Yes. Indeed. But haven't we all heard those stories from indigenous cultures regarding respectful and sustainable use of animals, honouring the spirit of the animal as it is killed, prayer for its safe passage to the spirit realm, clever and creative use of every part of the carcass to make various items as well as using it for food. I think this was the case for a long time, until greed and abundance got the better of us, and we stopped truly valuing what we had been gifted by life and instead considered it entitlement.

    I don't know, maybe those stories are just fairy tales we like to repeat so we feel better about ourselves.

    Often I hear stories of Maori ancestors living in harmony with the land, only taking what was needed and always giving back, but its painfully clear this wasn't always the case when you consider the simple fact of the way they over hunted the moa to extinction.

    The moa population was supposedly 58,000 when ancestors of Maori arrived. They were completely wiped out in just over 140 years. Moa burial pits have been discovered which show that usually the only meat taken was the legs. The rest of the carcasses were often entirely untouched, why? Because the meat from the legs was the tastiest.

    So theres clearly some kind of insidious sense of entitlement which predisposes us to dominate other animals, yet something tells me there are ways of utilising the available power of other lifeforms without abusing and disrespecting them.

    Which brings me to the other point.

    if we choose not to treat animals like our bros but like slaves, we fall short of ourselves. we choose ignorance, and anyone choosing ignorance, consciously, again and again, is culpable in my eyes, they are failures unto themselves. is that were we want to be collectively?

    No. But if I speak honestly, its where I find myself. Who I am I to be high and mighty, I rarely eat meat but I ate butter chicken for dinner tonight and I can safely assume that the chicken was factory farmed, which is slavery of animals, which I am against, yet I support it by giving my money vicariously to the industry, so that makes me a hypocrite.

    Is it worth any penance that I love the chickens at my own house very dearly and take great pleasure in tending them, feeding them, telling them I love them and remarking on how cute they are, how shiny and beautiful their feathers are?

    I would probably eat one of them if it was killed and prepared because I know it had a happy life, but I am a squeamish wimp and certainly couldn't kill one myself, let alone dismember it.

    Where do we want to be collectively???

    If we accept that we are animals too, then what right do we have to abuse and enslave other species?

    Does our use need to be abuse?

    What about plants? I know this is already a very broad conversation, but use may come of comparison made.

    I see monoculture and especially genetic engineering of plants as abuse. But growing a diverse vege garden with love and care and harvesting those plants for food is not abusive in my mind, especially if we have the good sense to collect seeds and ensure the continuation of the species.

    I'm baffled by the expansiveness here. I will just stop.

    • Like 2

  15. Posted · Edited by bogfrog

    I'd really like to clarify that the context in which this line of thinking arose (in a class) was only the starting point for these thoughts. The tutor certainly wasn't making claims either way, the point of the exersize was to describe the nature of the mineral, plant, animal and human kingdoms.. Sure something is implied by the fact of there being a human kingdom, but they certainly weren't trying to tell us we are not animals. This consensus arose amoung the class who were discussing it, and it wasn't so much stated as "we AREN'T animals", but rather "we are definitely different from animals because..."

    And to give fully deserved credit to the tutor he acknowledged the value of my continual rebuttal of the points others were making regarding animals as being inferior to us, and also the fallibility of having two such classifications, but for the point of the discussion, these lines were there.

    That was the context which spurred off my thoughts, and the recognition that in general, a lot of people do really like to think we are not animals.

    I have to say I have ultimate respect for this tutor, and while I found the responses of my classmates perturbing, it was a particularly enjoyable and thought provoking time to be had.

    Just had to clear that up okay.

    The original context was just the starting point, and I was not in an environment which had enough time available to explore this further.

    Hence why I bring it here.

    Thank you all for your thought provoking responses. I have more pondering to do before I can appropriately respond other than this.

  16. Posted · Edited by bogfrog

    I think meditation should be taught in a manner that will intruige those paying attention, and only those paying attention are going to want to learn these things for the most part.

    Makes sense, yes, but if this were the way, it should always be open to those who haven't really connected with it yet. Perhaps this would even work better than encouraging everyone to begin at the same time. Instead of trying to hold restless children in that space where they would be distracting others, who might be more naturally engaged, let them run free. I feel it should be optional, yet open to anyone always, because once a programme is established, the benefits will speak for themselves. And children often listen to their peers more seriously than someone they know is paid to tell them that something is a good thing for them to do.

    Imagine the busy-body kid who would much rather be running around in the woods than quietly sitting in a room. One day a friend who had spent the last year learning meditation techniques might tell him of an experience he had while meditating, sparking forest-boy's interest. Then forest-boy can be welcomed to explore his internal woods, and likely will do so with fervent interest as he has been able to come to it in his own time and for his own reasons.

    Great thread, thank you.

    • Like 2

  17. Posted

    It's a difficult question. Because A. There are things we need to learn as a species, heart-centred social dispositions, but B. there's a risk in only teaching these things because the current society we live in is harsh and cruel, so there are a multitude of modern survival skills needed too.

    We need peaceful warriors. Those who are brave to stand up for their own truth, and won't be easily usurped by the current authorities.

    I think all teenagers should have the opportunity to learn Qi gong. It's benefits are multifaceted, not only does it help to generate a calm clarity in the mind, it sharpens the mind. It shows you where your limitations are and helps you flow through them. It replenishes the health of the physical body and removes reliance on prescriptive medicine. It strengthens the spirit, aiding intuition, instinct, insight. It teaches discipline and commitment, and shows one first hand how to and why you should respect your elders. (And I mean real elders, not just people who are chronologically older than you, people who are wise in the ways of both worlds)

    Qi gong puts your power back in your own hands. Everyone should have the opportunity to try that.

    • Like 4

  18. Posted

    How to meditate.

    How to grow food.

    How to care for animals, and perhaps farm them on a small scale in high school.

    How to interact respectfully with other people.

    What is abusive or neglectful behaviour. (I know it's generally taught, but not always, could be a real eye opener for some kids to have confirmation that their parents are treating them unfairly.)

    How idealistic are we talking here?

    How to build a small house.

    How to survive in the bush for a month with minimal physical preparation (mental preparation is the best)

    How to manage money & other more tangible resources in such a way that one could escape the rat race.

    Negotiation skills.

    How to generate free electricity.

    • Like 3

  19. Posted

    It frustrates me to Bog when people think we are a superior species. We do have the ability and are continuing to find the knowledge to become one(maybe not superior but intelligent and caring), yet seem to go the other direction.

    I use too(as in 2 days ago) totally agree with this. The more I learn about the evolution of our planet tho it seems most living species compete to survive with no regards to the other species. Even the awesome symbiotic relationships I have learned about, as beautiful as they are, is about a species surviving. Dinosaurs vs Vegetation, Grasses vs Trees.

    In saying that, a difference between plants/animals and humans is we have the ability and knowledge, as you said, " to interact harmoniously with other lifeforms". We can co-exist, preserve and protect other species.

    It can be noted that nature is characterised by brutal competition, but someone/something (I can't remember what now) once pointed out to me that this competitive battle between life forms is infact what allows everything to live. The example given was the relationship between antelopes and lions. If the lions were not present to keep the antelope population supressed to a certain extent, then the antelopes would breed themselves into extinction, exhausting the available food supply and decimating their own species through unchecked growth. The lions allow the antelope to survive by hunting them.

    Perhaps this is the human races problem. We have so few natural predators.

    • Like 3

  20. Posted

    I've seen this before but it's sooo very worth a second viewing. Fuck they are beautiful. Makes me regret not collecting echninopsis all this time.

    What I find most spectacular is the seamless shifts in colour that take place. Some kinda magic that's fer sure.

    • Like 1

  22. Posted

    i wonder if dogs dreaming is evidence of imagination, or at least a capacity to imagine abstract scenarios?

    but perhaps chimpanzees have an active imagination too?

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130207-can-animals-imagine

    Your link seemed to be broken for me, this works but looks just the same: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130207-can-animals-imagine

    Cool article! Thanks. I liked it a lot, especially the chimp making a nest for baby log.

    Dreaming dogs are interesting too. When they are running while lying down. I wonder why it is that their brains not shut off their movement capabilities? I think my cat dreams, I reckon she has nightmares sometimes.

    Micoz....you dared :o!

    I recently watched a "doco" called 'Monkey Blood - Human Origins' which claimed much the same thing. I don't know what I think yet, and weather I trust their information as reliable, but they mentioned something rather interesting, which is that roughly 85% of the human population carries a gene derived from the Rhesus monkey, this is known as Rh+, and 15% of the population does not possess this gene, and are known as Rh-. There are differences between these two types, and reproductive incompatibility. If a Rh- woman falls pregnant to an Rh+ man, her body will rejects attack and kills the featus. Studies to assess differences found that Rh- people commonly have a higher than average IQ, sensitive vision, a lower than average body temperate, increased sensitivity to heat and sunlight and psychic abilities, as well as commonly reporting a feeling of not belonging to the human race and not coming from earth. They can't receive blood transfusions from Rh+ and some even have an extra vertebrae or an extra rib. Since Rh- blood hasn't followed the usual evolutionary path, it must have been introduced from a foreign source.

    ...and the designated source in this statement was of course aliens.. Backed up by mention of the arrivals of 'gods from the sky' in ancient texts by the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Chaldeans, Mayans, Azteks, Ayrians, Assyrians and the inhabitants of ancient Indian Tibet.

    • Like 4
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