hoodoo

Neat title, eh? Wish I had more to tell you. I did a search last night at these forums and got lost reading for many hours about many of the interesting "mitragyna" articles while searching for my goal, which is to find out what other alkaloids/properties exist in other species of Mitragyna. Please steer me to a thread on this topic if one exists. Kratom has varieties that are both stimulating and sedative, not only depending on dosage but also on regional variation and other factors. The Thai variety being sold by just a few hard to find venders in Holland and elsewhere , is far more stimulating and much stronger by weight/dosage than the variety sold by most commercial venders,I'd say three times more potent by weight, and that larger dose from the poorer commercail varieties is far more likely to instill nausea at those higher required doses. A new hard to find Malaysian varietyof Kratom is also supposed to be very stimulating and potent as the Thai type, comparatively. How people get several kiligrams of Kratom out of Malaysia and Thailand is beyond me. (I note that as far as I know none of these anti-addicition products are sold to Australians, so the venders state, I'll also note that I have no idea what is sold in Australia as I have never been there). What accounts for these qualitative differences might not only be due to the actives 7-HO-Mitragynine and Mitragynine, so I can only hope that whatever it is that causes the stimulation in the Thai variety might also occur in one of the other Mitragyna species at large in the tropics of the world. A few of these other Mitragyna have tradional usage as folk medicine. One Mitragyna, from equatorial Africa is a component of a mix of plants proven to alleviate the ills of Malaria. Another is used as an analgesic. I have a feeling that the study of other nauclea species may also prove fruitful. The "fake" kratom that went around years ago, prior to the arrival of true strains, was not Mitragyna speciosa, but it was by no means psychoactively characterless, and it may very well help fill some void caused by the banning of Kratom. I think someone stated that the fake Kratom was M. parvifolia or javanica? If so, has anyone tried using that material to postpone withdrawals? I recall that Torsten wrote somewhere that rhynchophylline was common to some other Nauclea family species, and I am familiar with the healing, immune system boosting properties of speciophylline and other chemicals in Cat's Claw (Uncaria impetigosa sp?). Cat's Claw is very faintly sedative in it's own right, and I am not sure what causes that, but in general it is the other Nauclea members that I am curious about. I imagine that drug companies have researched many of these, but most research was not likely undertaken with the intention of finding medicines to alleviate withdrawals and certainly not for their euphoriant potential, although the big pharms could have, I suppose, sought antidepressant potential but i doubt it, as most of that research is newer than the research that went on in the Mitragyna family at least. These days, antidepressants are big in research, and I bet a lot of plants that were studied for other potential medicines will be dug back out for new studies since the final product is such a big money maker. In summary, they may have overlooked what some people here might seek. One other point, I have had depression for 6 years or so,and for the last year and a half, I have taken mitragyna in one form or another nearly daily and I have not had a single depressed day in the interum.Man, I hope this lasts. I am surprised it has lasted as long as it has. For years I have medicated with legal and illegal drugs and so far, only the Mitragyna has helped to any significant degree. In the last few months I take it with a small amount of yohimbe with the intent to lessen the amount of tolerance I might otherwise have. The yohimbe also goes well subjectively, with the stimulating forms of the real Thai Premo Kratom, as I have to work among another 20 people, and so I can not be too lethargic from the sedative aspect of kratom, which I can minimize by avoiding the sedate strains. I find the rare Thai variety works best. This strain is seldom available and is not the Thai variety sold by the major, wholesale vender, which is much lower quality and cheaper. So I have not fallen off the list of productive humans, into the scourge of the homeless, and no, I do not appear to be a junky or stoner, and in no way have I been a burden on society, nor have I suffered any health problems to date. I have had my liver checked recently and there are no signs of trouble. No orange cheeks either. Also, the in lab conversion of mitragynine to the 7-HO form, has enabled one such researcher at least, to make his Kratom go a hell of a lot further, as the latter is so many times more potent, and also many think, the more interesting of the two chemicals. Could other chemicals in the other Mitragyna sp., also be converted to a 7-HO form and they too become more interesting chemicals? If so, they'd be legal at least until the puritan overseeers find a way to ban that too.

I just read this post for the first time, so sorry to dredge up comments that were made a long time ago as this thread has had a long life. I would like to read more posts from people who have tried Torsten's product. Somewhere way prior in this post I read that the Australian WTA copies the dictates of the US FDA and that author indicated that if the FDA was not out there, then Kratom and Salvia would be legal in the Australia. That author is misinformed. The FDA has banned neither Kratom nor Salvia, they are not sheduled by the FDA at least the last time I checked. Kratom is legal everywhere and Salvia has been banned in a minority of individual states. So, other than for US Navy personell, the feds have stayed away from restricting Salvia so far. From Erowid: So rather, it could be said that Australia is the PIONEER in banning Kratom in our self proclaimed non-dictatorial nations of this modern age, (and no I do not include the banning of Kratom by the Japanese puppeteers in Thailand to be of the modern era, nor do I consider Malaysia and Myanmar's laws to be part of what portends to be part of the "free world," as those governements are sadly even more horribly draconian and backward and must be grouped separately at the bottom of some other abysmal list.I fear that the US FDA may rather than initiate, copy the Australian government's initiative and eventually ban Kratom after they study the intensive homework that some folks at the TGA have released and so one by one, the folks at the FDA willl learn that there is another "badboy" out there on the loose. These people act as if euphoriant plants are some out of control vehicle about to collide into a crowd of pedestrians. I wish they'd show me a victim! Apparently, some US states have banned Salvia d, and I expect more bannings of all sorts of ethnobotanicals to continue as soon as they hear of them. However, I repeat, that blaming the US in this instance is misinformation, as Australia seems to currently be the darkest nation in the cluster of nations who proclaim to be democratic republics, at least in regard to when it comes to allowing it's people any of the recently popular ethnobotanicals for personal enlightenment. So, is Australia even less a democracy than the United States, has it sunk down to Malaysian levels? In regard to Kratom, it clearly has. I am fearfull that the TGA's striking, knee-jerk attempts to ban all plants causing euphoria may become a world model. This is especially scary considering that they are banning plants preemptively, since it is doubtful that at the time of their banning, that any Australian citizens had proven even moderately injured from such plants. The Erowid link shows that the US authorities can arrest people for selling bongs and other things under a paraphenelia law or something like that. Seems absurd, but it happened in California to Tommy Chong of Cheech and Chong fame. I do not know the details. And surely I do not mean to say the the US FDA is mild-mannered when it comes to what Plato would call justice, as the legality of some plants can teter on what the seller calls the product. That means that Kava Kava, if sold as an herb or supplement is legal, but call it "liquid codeine alternative" and it becomes illegal. That is outright fucking nuts. How could what a person calls the product effect the amount of harm the plant might do to a person? If the buyer 'thinks' it is psychoactive, can they do more harm to themselves,than if they eat the product as a "supplement?" ARGGGGG!!! In California, for example, laws make calling Salvia divinorum "psychoactive" illegal. In another state, in what must be one of the oddest of cases, someone was arrested for selling blotter acid with no LSD on it, after they sold it to narcs who obviously found a way to get back at those dealers. Bizarrely, the case was upheld by higher courts. The paper had nothing at all on it. Moreover, that case happened many years ago, long before the passing of any of these so called "analogue" drug laws. This makes me wonder, if I call my green tea "LSD," can I be arrested for possession of LSD? I can not believe that these types of laws are upheld in supposedly democratic republics run by the people. Just say "MOOOO." From Erowid: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law.shtml There is more on other nations in regard to Salvia laws.

I have never heard the stychnine mushrooms tale, but heard add nauseum that strychnine was the fuzzy part of peyote, and everyone I knew always took the time to cut those white fuzzballs out of the cactus, a time consuming task. I did it. There also was supposedly stychnine in the black fuz on Woodrose seeds (not the Baby Hawaian Woodrose Seeds) which could be removed by knife . I did that too. I also scraped the black fuzz together and put it in a capsule so I could get a strychnine buzz. (hey, those were hard times) I do not recall feeling anything from it. Regarding acid, supposedly "the jaws," an annoying side effect characterized by a shaking, jittering jaw bone after taking acid, was supposedly caused from adulterant strychnine. Later I heard "the jaws" was caused by impurities or poorly made acid. Anyone know what causes that and why it is present in some acid but not all? People also said that quinine was a popular adulterant to acid. My guess is that that particular myth arose as it was misconstrued from the addition of quinine to heroin. (I didn't do that). Quinine does indeed potentiate opiates, so I bet people have taken it with heroin. One other myth I recall is that if you buried weed and let it get moldy, it would improve considerably. (I did that 30 yeaers ago - hey, I was young, without my additional Australian wisdom which I aquired from this board). We did it to some herb that was pisspoor quality. I think we would have been better off leaving it in the ground forever as it tasted shitty and did not help the weed. I know an expert on hash who regularly meets those in Afghanistan who produce top quality hash and he swears that burying hash truly does improve it, if undertaken a certain way. I have to question the rest of his expertise due to that additional tidbit. Nope, I have not yet bought that idea from him, as I can only imagine that far less than one in a million underground fungi or molds would be psychoactive when smoked, and I have never heard of anyone cultivating and reapplying it to their buried stash, so the odds of him being lucky enough for his hash to aquire the right fungi, is terribly small. Sounds to me to be more like a Trailer Park Boys idea (they heat their blocks of hash with a bunsen burner in one episode - to strength it's quality! We know that on some underground parts of plants such as the sedative Chinese herbal, Cypress Grass, LSA sometimes grows as a fungi yet I have not heard of anyone smoking such fungi and find it doubtful that is what is growing on my friend's hash. We shouldn't discount the idea entirely though, as psychoactive molds are remotely similar in a way, to Claviceps purpurea; from which Hoffman derived LSD. Lastly, I also read of an inebriant in Tibet that supposedly occurs from the combined effects of some mold and the roots of an obscure plant. That was in Pharmacotheon.

On the topic of "who is good and who is bad," I hope that after the latest race riots, people around the world do not get the impression that Australia is a land with a higher percentage of uncontrollable, violent, racist ski-heads. The news has done a fairly good job of placing the riots blame on "skin-heads." Never the less, like more than a few nationalist or racist posts I have read here at Sham-Oz which exposed certain individuals similarly ignorant perspectives, it is obvious that people do indeed often generalize and think that way. People often read about the evil or foolish actions of a person or group from a distant culture or nation, and come to the conclusion that everyone in that culture or nation similarly holds the same view or supports the action. The less one knows about the far away place, the more they believe they "know," what the others are like. It is part of the ego's need to feel good about itself. Ever heard the line, "see that mate, we are better than that aren't we mate." On the topic of the human desire to spend life aquiring of wealth, or having purely materialistic goals, likely emerged long ago when humans were hunter gatherers. Historically, hunter gathering humans either survived or not, based on how good they were at collecting certain hard to find foods, tools and other items. For example, some regions where early humans developed, had very short seasons with vitamin rich berries available, and some of those vitamin rich foods were not available any other times of the year. So the tribes or individuals who were most adept at collecting berries, were the ones who would survive the long seasons when berries were not found. As the early human advanced, some tribes were surely conservative and must have stored dried berries for mid-winter use when vitamin C would be a pivitol element to boost the immune system. Those with dried berries must have had higher survival rates as the vitamin C and other goodies within them, enabled them to have more powerful immune systems and survive the winter viruses. Those who were not as good at collecting berries, may have been among the tribes that died out during the winter virus seasons. Eventually, the genetic traits would remain in the survivors' offspring. So in this current age, (I leave out the word modern) we have people everywhere who are genetically programmed to be good at collecting berries whether they know it or not and they do not know when to stop collecting useless things, regardless of their value toward survival. In fact we are so adept at it we are killing the earth, yet still, no one seems to want to slow down that train. Desire of wealth and material acquisition seems to have no bounds in many people, even if it means starting a distant war over things such as oil. They can not help it. Blaming "them" as their ego, is as insane as blaming yourself for being tall or short. Try blaming genes! Maybe we could extract their genes and execute them. :D What about a convicted murderer? Should we execute thereal culprit, his great, great, great, great grandfather? Remember Imelda Marcos and her collection of 1000 or was it 10,000 pairs of shoes? How many people do you know that buy stuff they do not "need?" Almost everyone does. Did you ever say to yourself, "Oh, shit, why did I buy that? I never should have bought that." How many eat so much food that they are overweight? And no matter how overwieght, that bell in their head still dings incessantly, "I am hungry, I need a bowl of blueberry icecream right now." Don't blame yourself, it can't be any other way, blame your genes! Little do most people know, whenever they desire anything, they are satisfying an ancient urge, attached to a gene, without which, they would not exist today. How many people would not be with their lover if sex disn't have an orgasm? Yet many take credit for it, maybe end up hating themselves for being fat. Others wealthy, might actually think they are better individuals than some others who have aquired less. Drifting off this topic, the strangest phenomenon of the human "ego," is that it ignores the fact that it has far less to do with the outcome a human's actions than it likes to imagine, as we are all driven by the far more powerful momentum of genetics, sexual drives, culture, education, and environmental elements, and so on, yet somehow, the ego provides the myth that that it alone is the main player or cause of all the good and bad things that are done each day, or moreover, that are all together produced by contemporary man. Note: when I wrote "ego," I did not mean the chauvanistic, arrogant "ego" of common usage, I mean "the ego" described in advaita, non-dualistic philosophy of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj or his disciple Ramana Maharshi. The ego they speak of is our "inner monologue" that declares itself the leader of the body it appears attached to, and they describe this ego moreover as the false, illusory, imaginary self, the ego-false-self, yup, the one now swimming as a voice in our heads among the illusion Maya. So the personal ego that was craving berry icecream, did not really want icecream, but their genes did. So they should forgive themselves, or forgive their "false self," :D and let it ride, let the momentum take them away as it will anyway, and so releasing themself from karmic guilt. Alternatively, those who have come across great wealth or power, should be blamed for any destruction they wrought, as there is no true player or succinct ego, situated in their heads, no solely powerful driver of their bodies, instead, the voice in their mind is a non-existent phantom liar, an insignificant player, although no man, nor ego will ever admit so. "Wait, I just did. Who are you I ask myself? I am you! No you are not. Then who is asking?" :D Nisargadatta teaches us to lend no credence to the illusory voice within, and instead observe it and all else from the outside as if watching the water from the edge of a river..............................and eventually those who hear but ignore that inner voice outright, are said to become enlightened.

Newscaster: "Let's see.....in todays news, we have here several stories today which will reconfirm your position on who the bad people in the world are, in Colombia blah, blah bahhh, baahhhhhh.........." Like everywhere else, yet certainly varying to many degrees, many Japanese believe the tale that much of the crime committed in Japan involves foreigners, as they perceive themselves to be the most honest, polite, humble, peaceful people on earth (always were too!) Japanese national media loves to indundate the people with any story of with foreigner involved in crime. Most cops types or customs agents, etc., beleive it too. In Tokyo, the nabbing of two pick-pocketers from China, might get a headline "Chinese Gangs On the Rise AGAIN!" of "FOREIGNERS INVOLVED IN CRIME SURGES NATIONWIDE," after the reporter found another foreign shoplifter in Osaka. Kids sometimes say "here comes that really scary man," when I walk by with a bag of groceries twent meters from my house. Why? Because I do not look Asian. People sometimes slap their car locks down in a panic staring wide eyed, upward into my eyes, from their cars, while they are waiting at a traffic light, when I am among the adjacent crowd waiting for the walk signal, to cross the road. One page two headline in the Japan Times stated factually, "North Korea Source of Japan's Methemphetamine," the article went on listing each case of discovery of assumed or actual cases of the meth Korean connection. Near the end of the article, which I imagine few people read to, it stated that all toll, the confiscations amounted to 3% of the Meth they found that year. They did not bother to add in the 97% of the Meth was made in Japan and sold by Japanese nationals. They also did not add that nearly 80% of police resources were spent sending cops to follow Koreans around, but ignoring the local crime syndicates, who blatantly operate nextdoor. People love to reconfirm that they are among the more enlightened group, race, religion, social perspective, and since there is rarely any proof nor truth to that, they go about skewing the news and topics to show that the others are the bad ones. "Hey look over there!" (He shouts as he points at the "others.") But notice how seldom he says, look right here in my home and I will show you are dysfunctional family on SSRIs, Valiums, alcohol or a photo of Wicked Uncle Ernie's in his prison uniform. I sence insecurity when ever I see that people pointing at others. FEAR! The bluff of the false self, misleading itself once again! I find that around the world, there are an equal number of assholes and good people in any land. Sure there are fluctuations, the pendelum swings, those in power shift or scam their way in, then get booted out if the masses are capable of it without getting slaughtered. Yet those people in power, present the window image that the entire nation, ethnic group or religion similarly supports their view, in similar extreme fasion. Yeah, those ______(fill in here) they are all the same. But I have travelled to Muslim, Buddhist, Christian and largely Athiest nations, and all I have ever seen, is that spread of the bell curve of personalities types, honesty, thuggery, good, bad, fundamentalist, not relgious, and so on, is similarly equal, where ever you go. These days, let's see, who are the bad people? Nope, not the Russians anymore, that was when I was in college, today, depending on where you are and who you meet, all Americans are bad people (they voted for Bush in unison and none were ever in descent at anti-Iraq potests). All Arabs are bad too, they are fundamentalists Muslims, they all happily danced when the Twin Towers went down, or after the Bali bombings....... White skinheads good? Yakuza good? Foreigners Bad................Dogs are good? Big dogs aren't anymore, right Smitty? Cats are bad though............Coke or Pepsie? Diet meds with ephedrine sold by conservative "businessesmen," good, norephedrine sold by "drug dealers," yea, that's bad........................ "We are the other people, we are the other people. " Frank Zappa :D

Friendly has celastrus paniculatus, which is probably better than dried khat leaves. http://www.celastrus.com/ I wonder how you might find sida cordifolia, as an ephedra source? Then there is dried citrus peels, especailly orange or mandarin, which you could get organic and dry your own. I know that these all have related compunds, but the differences in chemical structure muystify me, so I am not sure how they behave pharmacologically. Orange Peels contain synephrine, which probably is norepinephrine boosting, rather than dopamine ??? like pseudophed though, so you might not like it. Sida and celastrus probably work better. I collected a bunch of celastrus orbiculatus seeds last week form the forests as this is the time of year when most trees and shrubs are bare, and green leaves have mostly fallen for winter, so many seeds and fruits can be seen from a greater distance than usual. These seeds are pretty while hanging from the otehrwise bare shrub, the tiny outer nut shell is yellow, and the inner seed's bright red. As they dry in the sun, the yellow outer capsule splits into 4 sections, then slowly opens like an umbrella, with the red seeds hanging down in the center. I am not sure if these are pharmacologically active in any way though.

Surely, the establishment blitzes the media with disinformative disproportionate details of addiction, heart trouble, schizophrenia and other psychotic reactions and so forth from the non-prescribed fun things and they claim that it is only those dangers that they are protectings the populous from. If so, then being happily addicted to TV would also be outlawed. Surely if world governments undertook a rational risk analysis to study the hazards of such and such a number of hours of watching TV or going for a ride in a car, (radiation from TVs damages the eyes and can lead to health problems such as obesity) then we all know they would come up with lots more hazards related to the prescribed fun things. The number of hours gvernment sponsored scientists are paid to find things wrong with recreational drugs is a thousand fold more than the time they spend in any overall comparison, and in addition, they wholey fail to study the benefits with such vigor. So the whole anti-euphoria aspect of the drug campaign is self serving bullshit. Furthermore, imprisoning a euphoriant drug user who is guilty of no other crime, into a place where the extraordinary likelihood of a rapid health decline, occuring as depression, psychosis, as well as placing the individual into a setting full of physical abuse from prison guards and violent inmates, clearly can not be for the betterment of the health of such people. yet, they say their goal is harm reduction. Iwon't even get into the logic of the fallacy of deterrents. The overbound, ignorant arrogance of anyone consdiering arresting other people who take part in discussing kratom use outside of Australia, is ludicrous and near impossible for me to beleive! But from what I have read here at Sab regarding the endless "scheduling" frenzy that is going on in Australia, I can not completely discount the possibility. Does it really violate some laws? If so, it is time to buy a private island, then again, Cuba has a netherworld called Guantanamo, so nix the island idea! If I write to a friend in Saudi and tell her that I drank a beer tonight, and we discuss how I felt, can we both be part of some crime, enough to warrant out arrests? Ifso, I think two things are clearly way out of wack, first, the fact that I discussed using katom where it is legal. Secondly, it may be informative and important for anyone, anywhere in the world to learn how that material affects people and what uses or problems might ensue from it's consumption. Stifling anecdotal reports on it's use as an aid to end opiate addiction could hardly serve anyone in Australia anywhere. Furthermore, discussing kratom on an ongoing thread can not implicate anyone in Australia in anyway as far as I can tell, regardless of whether it is spoken or printed. I tried to give an analogous example of people discussing past use of LSD, such as Hoffman, when it was legal (imagine if someone in Australia wants to arrest Hoffman as he arrives at the airport for absorbing LSD through his fingers in Germany half a century ago!) I do not beleive this type of discussion in anyway rocks boats, and instead, I think censuring the last avenues of current kratom and other material's experimentation occuring outside of Australia, is instead, playing into the hands of the dictators. Do not let them have that! Such discussion is purely legal anywhere I have ever heard of, outside of maybe N. Korea or some nation where Sharia is the law of the land, as scientific discussion of events outside Australia can not hurt anyone in Australia, unless of course, people are afraid of the spread of information in itself. Now THAT couldn't be, could it? Also, if the printed discussion of my use of kratom is an "export" of sorts, then as I think Torsten is saying, then he may be right, it could violate some Aussie law???? I have never heard of any similar laws in any modern, non-dictatorial "free" nation, but if Australia has such laws, please let me know. And another thing..................rant rant rant..................

Torsten has never asked me to edit anything, although other people have. I have never discussed any creative chemistry either, as I am not knowledgeable in that area. One example of what I am thinking about is a comment posted on kratom thread which detailed recent kratom consumption, in my case, that did not occur in Australia nor anywhere where the material is scheduled. I do not live in the US either, by the way although like the US, Kratom is legal where I live. Someone said we should not be discussing a material that is already scheduled. I think it is particularly evil that Australia hastily scheduled the material in the first place, without a full understanding of it's potential benefits, not could they have done any truly indepth study of it's potential hazards in such a short time period. They clearly overstepped the rights of the nation's people without concrete scientific basis. Why? Due to that old puritanical fear that there might become another popular euphoriant that society can use to make them feel good. To the best of my knowledge, the core of many drug prohibition laws, cannabis is probably the best example, is based on the fact that some people feel good from it and not because they are worried about how it might harm those users. The powers that be do not want anyone to be able to become happier in anyway unprescribed by their current system, they want to hold every single reign, be sure the populous works hard 4o hour weeks in businesses own by the elite, the masses must be too tired to think when they get home from work, and expect no more than a profitable (and often harmful number of corporate prescribed alcoholic drinks, and finally, stare in idiocy at a TV full of twisted philosphies which further support the exisiting elite, while being taught what material things they must go out and buy to ensure a minimal static happiness, while in their short free time off periods. Every detail of which they strictly orchestrate, from the number of work hours per week to what is a minimum wage. Yet I have never seen any scientific proof that being happy from a non presribed euphoriant is in itself a danger to anyone, although that is really what they are afraid of most, that someone gets their kicks from something that is not profitable to them. Worse yet, is a drug with side effects which make someone not want to work so hard anymore. The person lose the desire to buy all the corporate offered "fun things," and skip Disneyland and Foster Beer, Football and as I said, TV. Shit! Profits would fall!

This is somewhat off topic, and I am not referring to any point made on this thread. A few times people on web forums have mentioned that I am not supposed to discuss such and such an illegal plant or substance. I am not sure why. I also recall Torsten saying that I am indeed allowed to discuss such and such a plant and I take that to mean substance as well, such as 2C-I, heroin or any other substance which is illegal in Australia. Discussing in of itself, what one knows or read here or elsewhere is not a crime, as long as what one talks about does not indicate partaking in the illicit usage, consumption, extraction etc., of such substances. The fascists overseers of the Australian people can NOT tell me what I can write on the World Wide Web, so please do not let them think they have this power. In addition, Australian laws are not applicable where I live. Discussion of plants that are illegal in Australia, or anywhere is protected under free speech as far as I know, in most civilized countries. Australia has a longer, ever more rapidly growing list of forbidden plants than even the draconian US and the last thing anyone should want is to let the Australian nation dictate what an international group of ethnobotanists can discuss on any internationally open discussion forum. As far as I know, to this date, nothing has changed in this manner, freedom still exists to discuss every topic that I have discussed. Oddly, more than once, people have asked me to censure my comments regarding substances whichare illegal intheir country. Moreover, thousands of people, including Hoffman and Shulgin freely discuss LSD and other substances on forums, in journals and elsewhere, to this day as they have for decades, regardless of the particular laws regulating the substance itself, in the nations they reside. Discussion of a particular plant's chemical constituents, the physiological properties of the plants or substances on humans and other creatures, whether as double blind studies written up in journal articles or in private subjective reports from Erowid or other sources, are not illegal activities in of themselves. People who discuss their own activity while possessing illegal plant materials in their presence, may well be breaking their local laws if they have no special license to do so. If you are such a person, consider editting your own discussion rather than suggesting that others who have nothing to do with your possibly illegal activity, should cease to discuss the entire topic. I think the Australian fascists would love to censure much of what people say regarding the psychoactive plants and this is a great place to keep them from doing that. As everyone knows, government overseers have already imposed harsh penalties onto people for possessing so many plants and substances, and forums like this are one of the few refuges to keep the knowledge about these materials alive, so there is no reason to play into their effort to ever widen their control by prohibiting the discussion which takes place here, stored only in harmless phantom electromagnetic print or held in our concious and subconcious minds. The internet is one of the last vestiges of freedom in the world and while we should beware that such postings allow the overseers access to obtain and hold permanent records of individual's written comments, opinions and said activities, in the end, this new found, 20 year old world wide web may well become the only platform in which freedom of speech can continue unmolested regardless of the overseer's attempts to censure us. ^_^

I have Mulunga in the form of shredded wood from Raintree that I bought about 7 or 9 years ago. A simple alcohol, water base tincture has remained potent for a long time, just two droppers full being a medium strong sedative. I also find it to be a touch warm, with some character and it goes nice with other relaxants. Overall, I am a big fan, in my opinion it is much better than scullcap, and most of the other common herbal sedatives, but the only problem is I get an achy head (hangover) the day after that is enough to keep me from using it often. My guess is that at least half the people that like that sort of thing would agree that it is one of the strongest and most interesting non-opiate sedatives. Another good one from raintree is Abuta which contains the muscle relaxant Isochondodendrine, which is a relative to the relaxant which occurs in curare I think. It also has tetrandine. Abuta is specifically treasured by women in Brazil and known as midwives herb, according to Raintree. It relaxes muscles in the lower body cavity region so helps releive discomfort from menstruation and other ailments. Raintree notes that aside from "tetrandrine, Cissampelos pareira contains palmatine, hayatinin and other berbine derivatives." I recall that some form of palmatine is one of the analgesics that occur in the bulbs of the famed Chinese Medicine for pain, Corydalis. They wrote berbine, did they mean berberine? If so, it might also be good for colds, sore throats, pushing bile along too when you need that. The next favorite is Desmodium adsendens, they call Amor Seco. I have heard it called "strong back," as it is used as a pain killer, relaxant, and likely due to the tetrahydroisoquinolines that might be considered to have effects somewhat like some of the essentials in Corydalis and Abuta above. I expect Shulgin might tell us more about these chems specifically if he ever lets us get a copy of the ones he knows and loves. Oh, and for immune systems, it has astragalin too. Also tossed in are beta phenylethylamines and hmmmmmmmm, is cyanidin a form of cyanide? From Raintree: Astragalin, Beta-phenylethylamines, Cosmosiin, Cyanidin-3-o-sophoroside, Dehydrosoyasaponin I, Hordenine, Pelargonidin-3-o-rhamnoside, Salsoline, Soyasaponin I, Soyasaponin II, Soyasaponin III, Tectorigenin, Tetrahydroisoquinolines, Triterpenoid Saponins, Tyramine

Maya ethnobotanicals tossed in some free bakana roots with lsa on them, or at least that bunch of roots were known to be active, as others had tried them and stated they were like LSA, so it is beleived a fungus had grown on them. I suppose the fungus might stillbe viable if it has the right plant matter to grow on. I am not any longer into ingesting LSA or anything of that sort as over did that 30 years ago, and also found half of the adventure on woodrose or morninglory to be too puky and the accompanying somatic distress was only for the young and bold. I still have the 5 Cypress roots although they must be 4 or so years old, and I never did anything at all with them. I am sad to say, that at that time the roots were viable, and I do not know if they still are. I also do not know if Maya's still has them in stock, but he is the only source I have ever come across for those little roots. I wonder where I put them???????? I guess it is time to go make a mess.

Spose some of ya mighta seen this before, but what the hey: Go to http://www.google.com/ and type "failure" without the quotes, instead of hitting Google Search, hit the adjacent button which says, "I'm Feeling Lucky." :D

This is the first time I heard of anyone smoking blotter for any effect. Thanks for the report. I kept to smoking only dirty carpets, newspapers, magazines and Freak Brothers Comics, they never seemed to work though.

Like friendly said, the heating of the LSA's as they are found in the seeds are unlikely to have anything to do with any visual effect, unless they convert to something different when heated. More likely it is another component of the plant that cuased said people's inebriation. The LSA rich fungus growing on cypress are also unlikely to be effective visually when heated, again, unless they somehow are altered to a new, as yet unknown chemcial that is active. LSD anyway, if comparable to LSA, when heated doesn't do squat. Also, Friendly noted: My guess would be that the theolegians that taught the law above, made it up to frighten husbands from considering murder as a way to get out of a bad partnership.

A very nice, thread can be found here: http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopi...ighlight=libido Torsten: The alternative medicine guru Dr. Andrew Weil, http://www.drweil.com/u/Home/index.html stated that amino-acid supplements should be taken on an empty stomach, although he did not mention L-Tyr specifically. Weil also mentioned that most acids in that group deteriorate rapidly if allowed access to moisture and heat. Viagra like Yohimbe, while effective for the size of the Manwood, but does nothing for sex drive. So states a guy online selling cabergoline for sex desire. Cabergoline, a dopamine agonist for Parkinson's disease. Dextroamphetamine actually boosts sexual drive for a person whose libido drowned by an SSRI. Of course that is only when taken with the prescribed range of 5 or 10 mgs per day. Higher than prescribed doses of amphetamines opposingly induce nearly total penile shrinkage.