Sonny Jim

astroturf? or just "useful idiots" you decide....

for shame!

prime-air?...more like primer anyhoo, they'be be too easy to pluck out of the sky with a slug gun or modified magnetron or series of magnetrons attached to blimp and sent into drone air-passageways...or with a butterfly net....with magnetrons and stuff on it. it'd be too easy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=50zT3o6KOgs

does that mean the nook probably is as well?

is this place the dreaded "AstroTurf" we've been hearing about? Pretty realistic for artificial grass roots though...lol anyway, as long as nobody gets too angry and says the F or the C word (other's?) then I think it's all friends/mates/pals.

whitewind i wrote nothing about wanting zero gov. For example, i have written at least twice in this thread that deregulation of australia's economy was very bad...what gives? i don't think what i am saying is that complex, most of my posts to this thread are short so how did you get that from what i have said? I am talking about tyranny, have another look over my posts here.

sorry three post, I just wanted to make it clear that. "ime it's useless arguing with torsten. after observing his posts on and off for a couple of years, i think he has little of value to contribute other than knowledge about drugs and plants. this is only my opinion." I have been reading this forum for maybe 15 years (has it been going that long? I am sure I was reading this forum in my late teens/early twenties) and I think that's unfair about torsten but I am sure he is thick skinned enough to not be phased, Anyway, I am very happy to argue with everyone in this thread especially torsten because I am genuinely needing to understand this mind set. I have a family member who would probably agree with torsten but he won't talk to me about it anymore.... but I really want to keep the discussion going.... but maintain that I want "you people" to stay away from my freedom to have children, if you need to over look facts to maintain your argument then that's ok I guess..in the interest of diplomacy/keeping the discussion going....because "you people" scare me. or maybe it's not about overlooking fact, maybe it's about how we feel about humanity deep down because I know proponents of increased gov power use facts to back up their arguments. What I am politely trying to get at is this; I actually would have been less sensitive to the dangers of proposed laws this year, I actually had less love for humanity until I had kids, I wouldn't have been as horrified by DOCS tyranny before I had children. somethings you can learn from being clever but somethings you must learn from experience....the horror of destroying the family is less obvious to someone who has less understanding of family due to never being charged with having to take care of offspring. I am sorry if that offends torsten and darklight but remember we are trying to be frank and I will accept or at least ponder torsten's generalizations if he will at least ponder my generalisation about not having a certain experience and the way it might effect his overall view of humanity.

what worries me the most is that proponents of increasing gov power seem in this thread seem to think that the gov is their friend and somehow out to help them but no serious student of the topic could get passed their first few months of study on any just about any gov in the world to realise gov is only the puppet of the oligarchy and the oligarchy almost by definition are almost always very dangerous people....you might ask who but only the truly ignorant narcissist would lust after the power to fuck with and steal from people they are supposed to be looking after...when they are already rich so have no need to steal and fuck people over? sure, in a world where the people didn't live under increasing tyranny gov power would be less of in issue but in this world it is EVERYTHING!, pick a time and place, any. and show me how this isn't an obvious fact of history. maybe you totally trust gov?...it seems like it....maybe you are gov? just joking really I just want to understand because y'all scare me. Do you worry about it in the same way i do. Do you think I am just too stupid to understand the wisdom of your idea of what tough love should be? and if you just had the chance to do it I would realise you are right? ^^^because that's what I am scared of.

but torsten what about the fact that the ignorant masses you are worried about were created by gov policy i.e. the systematic dumbing down of the population via the education system and weaponised "bread and circus" style culture. why does it then follow that increasing gov power will be a good thing? isn't that just playing into the trap set by the oligarchy i.e. destroy prosperity over many decades (fabian style) to consolidate control because it gets the massed to agree to their own extermination/mistreatment/discrimination by their own gov. that's why I wrote to you and darklight before in this thread to remind you that it's all about wealth and power consolidation, you people will get no extra resources from the gov by fucking with my freedom. I am sorry that's not obvious, I recommend refreshing your historical perspective (and preset day) on the facts concerning planned/forced austerity

we (me, you and every australian but a few) have already shown the financial oligarchy we won't protect children unfairly targeted by docs, so it's will get worse but the fact it now has popular support complete with state produced talking points tells me we are in for hard times never before seen in the modern west. That's scary. edit: wait! nazi germany was fairly modern west important modern particle physics came out of that part of the world and time, they were pretty sophisticated.

I'm sorry you feel targeted, but you need to look at why you think this is, because nobody is coming for you. The only place this is happening is in your head. Nobody here sets policy or legislation no but you will vote for policy that does and it seems like you will do so on mass. very scary, not for my family personally, my child is getting a bit old to be messed with but there's so many poor young families out here and I know they are already at the rough end of the stick with this tyranny.

and torsten, the argument that gov already does this, that we just need to do it better. well I know the gov already takes children unfairly, I have written about that in the recent days. why don't you people understand how terrifying it would be to become pregnant with a child and have some bullshit lie about resource restriction let the gov come and make you have an abortion because that's where this kind of shit leads...no? it's all about wealth and power consolidation, you people will get no extra resources from the gov by fucking with my freedom. I am sorry that's not obvious, I recommend refreshing your historical perspective (and preset day) on the facts concerning planned/forced austerity.

i find it truly scary that even torsten has zero respect for the basic freedoms that make humanity humane. do i really have to explain how dangerous such gov power can be. honestly, who am i talking to?

I want you liars to stay away from me and my kids keep your fucking policy away from my freedom to have children edit: go ahead, belittle the fact that you are a danger to me. this is not about the dole, this is about birthrate and restricting birthrate

remember please, that we are talking about Australia, we are talking about proposed laws for Australia. you have shown that you will believe any convenient lie to get a chance to fuck with parents and their children. over population (in australia!, sheesh i thought that went without saying), is a lie. that's why you scare me darklight and friends. because it sounds like you want to hurt my family. or rather you are so dumb you don't see the danger in what you propose and will believe any lie to maintain your scary position.

However if it takes a village to raise a child, perhaps people should ask the village before spitting out six another chilling statement, again I don't like to tell you that you scare the heck out of me but you do. If you're looking at the birth rate you must also realise that it isn't directly related to population growth, even in .au. you are the one who wants to lower the birth rate. I am the one showing that we already have a negative birth rate. but obviously believing the lie is very useful for you or you wouldn't be trying so hard to believe it. That's the point I made before but you laughed at it. I was serious. I would never have come to those conclusions left to my own devices well?

well i don't know how else to explain why you have decided to attack our right to have children. My point is you have no real world reason to attack that right (because overpopulation is not real) but yet you attack it. If it's not because you have no respect for the thing you attack then what is it? and don't say because you are simply ignorant as ignorance about something is kind of that same as not having respect for that thing.

I think it's basically a deep seated hatred for the things that make us human i.e. loving and caring for and having children is a big part of humanity but this really gets on a lot of people nerves, like it hurts them to see it. I remember what that felt like but I am glad I got passed it because it really is a form of self hatred. that's why they are so eager to believe lies like over population or anything that normalizes their hurt feelings towards humanity. that's why it's so easy for them to ignore the facts when presented because they get a great deal of comfort out of these lies.

I'm totally over moist-eye'd parents bleating some kind of biological imperative about how they 'had' to have children, how it's a right Really? because I have run in to so many of you lately and you scare me. Not much scares me and I wouldn't lie about something like this but the idea that so many people seem to agree with this type of sentiment sends a chill down my spine...like i sense danger. i feel many people have lost faith in the innate ability of humanity to live in beauty and dignity without the gov to do it for them. that can only be because many people have become completely ignorant of the fact that gov can never and has never created anything, all gov can do is regulate, the beauty, wealth, spirit etc is the people not the gov. not ever the gov.

Torsten, you can have the baby bonus, I think it’s totally fucked as well. I want to start by saying that a few years ago I would have agreed with you if it came up in a thread but now that I have had the time in the past couple years to start looking for information that was not from state controlled sources I have built a picture of what’s gone/going down that is completely juxtaposed to the way I used to understand my relationship to the state. Maybe you have heard this story before but truly, in aust we have zero alternative media and wall to wall covertly owned or simply wilful-idiot owned media and only that type of media seems to be pushing depopulation. So definitely check the basis of anything people like that tell you. Lets clear a couple things up Australia’s birth rate is negative or close to negative, same with most other developed countries. FERTILITY RATES In 2011, Australia's total fertility rate (TFR) was 1.88 babies per woman, down very slightly from the 2010 TFR of 1.89 babies per woman. Since 1976, the total fertility rate for Australia has been below replacement level. That is, the average number of babies born to a woman throughout her reproductive life (measured by the TFR) has been insufficient to replace herself and her partner. The TFR required for replacement is currently considered to be around 2.1 babies per woman. The TFR reached a low of 1.73 babies per woman in 2001 before increasing to a thirty-year high of 1.96 babies per woman in 2008. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Products/3301.0~2011~Main+Features~Fertility+rates I put it to y’all that the “over population problem” seems to be more about mind control than fact/reality. In terms of the problems we face this one doesn’t exist, unless of course we willingly adopt the planned austerity measure being cooked up by those who are certain they know best (how to hurt us bad). Sure there’s not enough food/resources? In a county that should and could easily be a food bowl to the world and for its self…but the Fabian’s want the aust people kept at a distance from the aust’s ability to generate food and wealth so we appear to be poor but I don’t believe it. We are poor as the result of weaponised economic policy, not for lack of abundance. So the lack of resources problems darklight’s talking about will probably continue to increase to drastic levels but this won’t be the fault of the birth rate. Or rather, reducing the birth rate couldn’t possibly have much impact because we are already at negative growth…you see, it’s a trick.

there is a growing problem with uneducated, poverty stricken masses but this is a result of IMO economic policy from the social engineers (deregulation of all important means of wealth generation for populace was a big one for aust) and the education policy of the social engineers dumbing down the increasingly poor masses. I don't think nasty and picky social engineering making it harder to get access to dole money that parents have been forced onto by the direct result of economic and educational policy of said social engineers is going to help anyone except those who want us to suffer deep down. in other words, the gov has no right nor is it logical to tell the populace to get of the dole and work at jobs that don't exist because the gov has been working hard for decades to remove those jobs. in other other words, the dole money could actually be thought of as the peoples ransom, the gov must pay for their current/future/past trespasses. In practice i think this is actually accurate, if they didn't pay the ransom the people would quickly get hungry and wake up....the problem is if the gov slowly takes the dole money away, we don't get the wake up effect i.e. Fabian style gradual change

do you have a problem with "breeders" Torsten? are you certain you know how best to raise a child and know how to set the test and course for the licence to breed? or is there someone even smarter than you who knows best how to go about licencing the breeders? or would maybe "science committee" best generate breeder licencing program? edit: question 1 have you had all your shots? question 2 have you submitted bone and spinal fluid samples (from all parties in potential contact with potential new born) for substance abuse testing? question 3 does your immediate family and neighbors have a genetic predisposition to excess sodium intake?

this will cause masses people to get put in prison for repeated driving without a licence. this is quite likely because this year in nsw something like 700 people from regional areas went to prison for driving unlicensed because of the increased penalties which make it very easy to lose your licence. as far as i can tell, this is just one of many gov initiatives to crush humanity.

so this year in aust we have had the bikie laws the vaccine laws (mandatory jabs for the kids or no dole, no school) the home schooling laws (they basically want it outlawed, starting with registration in NSW) the confiscation of drug abusing parent's children laws something about people who've had their gun licence revoked can have their homes searched/raided by cops without a warrant. I am probably forgetting stuff but it's been a big year or so for tyranny gateway laws I think these proposed laws are a test. If the aust public won't show an aptitude towards the protection of their children from basic and obvious threat(s) our oligarchical examiners (remember it's a test) are gonna get the idea that they have the green light to come at us faster and harder. While our guard appears to be down.

the fact that they even suggest it...I mean. Shouldn't they be in prison or something for attempted mass child torture? I am frightened by the way people think lately. Like the people I know that had their baby taken for pot, (still gone several years later!) they didn't even really fucking fight it. like we won't even protect the kids, and we act like we deserve it when the gov comes to hurt us. we are broken.