Flip

my thought, You have great humidity and your plant is gathering additional water off of the ambient air. I've had a carpet of these "arial roots" on the undersides of my p viridis years ago. These were seed grown plants and isolated from any type of infectious insect yet we developed the same types of features under the leaves. I suggest that you take one leaf and half burry it in moss and see what happens. There's also a suggestion that you might want to break it in a few sections and see if they'll react like P.V. leaves with multiple clones arising off of the one sectioned leaf. please update

Jon Hanna:

I got some of that Pollen a few years back. from memory the pollen didn't take from the q-tips. it was well worth a try We've got her growing well enough here now and expect fresh flowering in 3 more years time.

I just wanted every to know that the charges for Bouncing Bear's Warehouse's owner and businesses have been dropped but that they're leaving wide open the door for filing new charges based upon their continued investigation. Local News Story He'll be able to get many of his products back but the live plant material may have been damaged, killed or destroyed by the impoundment by the police/ federal agents (very likely). I do not know what they did with the amphibians but it's likely that he'll have to fight to get those back since they're most likely been handed to the humane society and or may have been returned to the wild if it was believed to have been wild caught animals. I'm sure there'll be updates

Well, whoever they are ... J Ott knows them well enough to have them as guests but at the same time... they're clearly fucked up people that *shouldn't ever be guests* yet alone tolerated in any way. Yet, for some reason... their names are being shielded. Personally, If someone burned down my house ESPECIALLY, after I showed such a kindness as allowing them to sleep there I would hunt them both down Drag them back by their scalps through ant mounds while smeared with honey Only to have them tied to stakes and fed to wild dogs. While streaming it live over the internet and charging for tickets to recoup my losses. Before I would start even thinking of calling things even.

Jabaz, I'm sorry if I didn't state it clearly. There is a general "rule" regarding sales of prohibited items to those under 18 This also applies to grade / highschool campus's as well Violation of providing "drugs" within 1,000 yards (roughly 1k meters) and/or to someone underage results in the court systems use of special charges charts for increased and even mandatory time in prison. Basically everyone knows that sales to kids even if it's technically legal... is just stupid and begging to get busted. What was insinuated by the media reports was that sales were made to school age kids by the fact that a close by school district found their students with K2 on them while on campus. Reporting this is solely intended to inflame the public's sentiments against BBB store. While I didn't find any references to K2 being found at the local school district to the store. That doesn't quite mean that they're not selling to those same kids. Only that those from other districts are less wise about bringing it to class with them. 30 miles isn't that far to drive along those rural roads and for the cost of gas vs shipping to their parents home I'm willing to bet that most picked up their stuff directly.

Do they even own it? Looks like it could be someone's from the neighborhood. just saying...

Any link is going to be coming from the media or from "the authorities". I followed up on it What I did find was that the school districts cited we're less then 30 miles away from the storefront. other districts did state that k2 was a active problem on campus. But admittedly, nothing that stated that they got it directly from the store ... of that the storefront had a policy of checking age for sale either. they could have ordered via the web. I do know that when I was in high school that a 30 mile drive in a friends car wasn't that big of a deal to get something new, exciting and legal. Sure, you don't have too but you'll pay the price if you do... it's your choice. non sequitur Very true. What they're after is the cash that they can take from him by making a reasonable claim that they're illegally acquired profits. There is a small sandbox that very one can enjoy... stay in that and everyone is fine.. throw dirt at people, cause problems and you'll be taken out and beaten up. .BBB Stepped out of the sandbox allotted to them. and seems to not have played ball with the other team as well. but that's not the whole situation either. There's the State legislation that seems to have generated it's banned list off of BBB's menu of products. looks like many things are now going to be illegal in that state other than K2. Teljkon, What do you think the worth is to use this as leverage to actually get their marketing and customer base to cultivate their own domestically vs being consumer of powders, skins and imported materials? is there any advantage to growing other than access in your opinion?

After looking over some of MSSmiths images it might be a true "T. Pachanoi (T. pachanoi from Matucana, Peru) or close... perhaps a hybrid cross. The guy that made the cuttings said it came from a very old and "abandoned" mother plant very tall and had a woody core. quite thick and about twice as the b clone. He's referring to it as a "tree pachanoi" close up of skin and spine configuration nice ridges no? small branching pup and just for fun some of the other trichs he had on the table sorry about the image quality is was getting dark Thoughts?

It's listed on the tag as a t. terscheckii. that doesn't make it so... but it's good support for the argument. It's very likely to have been started from seed and recently brought in fro the growing grounds the owner has.

Yeah, well I'm going to be picking up that pachanoi type clone there's more if anyone wants to trade in the USA. I can get them but lets try to get a handle on it's ID first. Oh on the mixed table the bridg hybrid clone is verified.

I was thinking the exact same thing. If you've ever showed off your seeds to someone... then this is a distinct possibility. Looks to me that there's two different species in there. The loph's will not have any hard spines. take a pencil and brush up against one with it, if it bends along the length... you're ok if the taller ones don't bend along the length but at the base then you've got another species. Perhaps even a trich sp.

Well it seems as if this is oddball of the group that can self pollenate.

I'm very interested in finding out if this is true it's a project that I've been working on myself for quite some time! please verify and provide any info regarding this.

If I may add that the self sterility is both mechanical as well as on the genetic level you'll need fresh pollen from different genetic individual to generate seeds. be careful... lots of surprises await.

Mac, Yes, I do think it's about perceptions (but not the way you're thinking) It boils down to this Mutant doesn't want to be infringed upon with "idiotic questions" so he's trying to protect the forums in a way... I'm saying that we all start at zero and learn largely from example. The best way to bring people up out of the mud is to not let them all make a fucking royal mess out of everything. but point out to them that there is a problem and a solution that the "best" will recognize and gravitate towards. Offer up a better solution than what the BBB types are making $$$ from and people will take it and run with it. Mutant, regarding longevity of forum sites. they need new blood in order to thrive. over a decade ago when the lycaeum was undergoing several changes I argued for a more advanced and closed system of membership to the forums just like the real old days when it was crazy encrypted, nymservered and you had to make yearly payments to belong. I also wanted to keep the idiots out and everyone and everything safe and secure. I was outvoted and while I was correct on many points the realization that any measure we could undertake it didn't stop peoples greed. There would always be someone else willing to cater down to the masses in order to make a buck or have their lame ass ego stroked by a ignorant kid. I digress.... While there were a few forum invite only sites set up for the advanced people in the wake of all of this... What I learned was, that its about as fun as the Universities professors mess hall. Even in these advanced websites... without the new people coming in and asking questions, bringing in new things and random information we all grew stagnant in our comfortable little worlds of BS. and worse of all.... That which we left behind... grew stronger. Those open sites grew in membership and bozo ideas became gospel. The clueless kept going along without us... growing in both numbers and influence. without the voices of the reasonable and learned... they were able to shout down the few voices of reason left on many of the larger forums. It's all steps that have lead us to the point we're at now. the only way I see to combat all of this is to educate people and teach them because if we don't... the idiots will be more than willing to do it for us. then we'll all be left with nothing.

I wanted to join in on this from playing around with both vertical and horizontal lo cuts I agree that the vertical are healthier and faster growing from my experience. I've got my theories as to the "how and why?" mechanisms

The seeds may just be bad Or there's a bad technique. Here's a quick and still roughly described method that I've used with success Flips hard seedcoat germination

RE: Hot and dry climates You've got to keep them tented and or indoors and out of the wind. Expect a lot of leaf deformities due to low humidity. I've seen some BEAUTIFUL plants in Southwestern US greenhouses.

Just my 2¢ I wouldn't use IPA right off the top as a spray *depending* upon the size of the plant in question I would suggest hitting them with a nice jet of water Work your way down leaf by leaf all the way down the stem That's a lot less damaging to the plant as long as the spray isn't so heavy that it's ripping the leaves apart you're in good shape. Ants will go to caapi and feed off of the sugar wells small nodules at the base of the leaves. Once that happens they'll start setting up little farms. A good way to keep such things as aphids out of the picture is to nuke the ants out of existence. If you're unsure you've got any in your area, a good way to test for ants is to go down to a local pet store and buy a dozen crickets. Use their dead bodies as bait. set them along walls close to planter boxes Many ant species will zero in on them within a hour if they're in the area. Then you know what to do.. I've got no problems with nuking invasive species likeArgentinean ants vs native species They like to establish mini colonies in your pots as quickly as an afternoon if they find a food source close by.

Hello Mutant, Yes I've read some of your posts and I remember seeing you within the threads that are of interest to myself. and I also understand.... Guess I'll also have to jump the hurdle with you as you will with me. No, what I know is that if drugs are the primary motivation This will open the door for a few that desire what they think they want and bring them up a level or two in personal growth by giving them something more to think about The lazy and stupid will fall away of their own accord unless catered to. That is the main problem... someone will cater to them in a quick bid for cash so I suggest that different people help reduce that (noob) market as much as possible by encouraging plant cultivation. as well as, throwing blame upon all websites like BBB for threatening their legal access to plants. Go into their web forums and jam their system... find the best and bring them in... get the others to blame those BBB esque websites. reduce their profit pool and help preserve the cultivation of valuable plants. Of course, that's why I'm here. By accepting this you also accept that you won't be having to deal with the american noobs asking basic questions either. so they'll shouldn't be bothering you. This forum speaks in a language that isn't to their tastes. I'm currently dipping down into some forums to help select and point the way for those that are above the problem people but don't yet know where to turn. Someone has to be the guide every now and then... otherwise you only feed the monster. Yeah, I roll my eyes when I hear this new age over idealization from someone. [added} Christian, Jewish, Islamic followers all say the same thing as well. Well that is exactly why I'm promoting the idea of growing your own to the noobs as well as the fear that "the end is near". I'm using both the carrot and the stick here mutant, to bring people up closer where they should be if they're interested in using these tools. There's many that are looking in quiet desperation but do not know where to turn.... I chose to give them something to shoot for. ditto on all counts... you are not the only one. perhaps you've know a guy named murple.... yes, but the cat is really already out of the bag here in the states among the net junkies things have gotten waaaay out of hand and when I was busy trying to hold back "the flood" as the lycaeum mod over a decade ago.. Working to keep the consumer drug mentality of the 1960's street drug culture under control and getting people to think was a serious time commitment on my part... but I believe it was and still is worth it. Yes I have the same viewpoint and I fully agree that the spread of information but not knowledge is what is bringing many things down. I've preached it for over a decade. People have to work and invest in order to get the keys. Peoplelearn and change their own personal attitudes along the way as a result of putting in the effort. The worst thing to do is to cater to people with such consumerist attitudes and that is what is entirely what is wrong with the entire situation here. Catering down to people is the crime, that BBB committed. Now, I believe is the best time to change peoples perspectives and help point them into a good direction... because right now many are looking for help and are open to hearing what we have to say. I know what you mean... Well, I think we can see each other more clearly now. Good to meet you

Thanks mike. I took some time off to reapply to personal, family and business pursuits. It's really good to see everyone here again. :D You kiddin, I knew this was going to be a long term project when I got started in college ;) LOL Well I'm sure that it didn't help matters that my plants served as the voucher specimen images for the Lycaeum plant archive Nobody can really blame me, as I ordered KK242 T. Peru seed. Got labeled KK242 seed and germinated them. The confirmation ID support I got at the time (not you btw) sealed the deal. Guess we all kept on referring back to ourselves for verification back then. Oh yeah, imagine my surprise when I learned that there's no more Trichocereus anymore. Glad I haven't given any lectures or cacti presentations in the last few years. (I had been telling people that the pachanot was a hybrid due to F2, F3 variation being all over the place.. nice to see I wasn't alone) Indeed. I can deal with this. it's science (not religion)... We change according to facts and best information available. All of this puts my crossing project into a bit of a twist.. but I'll pick up the pieces Looks like I've found some 6+feet of spineless true E. pachanoi here So I won't have to start off again from 100% scratch /seed.

Mutant. What's happened is that the perceptional bar has been raised. You give me the impression that you believe that it's better to give people convenient access to powerful molecules without any training, guidance or demand that they raise up to a level of responsible use by way of a mature understanding for these tools? Pointing people to erowid isn't going to cut it. It's simply the wrong paradigm to follow. I'd much rather have people raise themselves up to something like this than to have it lowered to them. I have little sympathy for those that demand the quick and easy route for something they don't understand If they are allowed to think of botanicals as way to cheat the drug laws and be reckless Then, we've gained nothing. Firstly The good thing about making people cultivate their own plants is because, they'll have to be responsible and stable enough to care for it. This generally removes all immature kids (living at home) and fuckups from the equation. and they know it. Secondly it's a self regulating system. if you can't care for yourself (house and home), because you're all wacked out on kratom Then ... you can't care for your plants ... you lose their "production" in proportion to your lacking stability. Chewed up and ill cared for plants - don't grow. Again the people most likely to complain about this, are the ones that know that it eliminates them or because it forces botanical stability and responsibility on them as people. Gone are the homeless wanders making mimosa orders at the public library. Again, I don't have much sympathy.. at the very least... they're a image problem for the community. If you're thinking that we can win public support for legalization then we have to cultivate the upstanding and productive citizen image... not the one of a guy who can't pay his rent. Thirdly It takes time. this weeds out those casual people that don't take the time to research or have a true interest in entheogens. It cools the heels of many and gives them time to think about what they're doing and why investing time and expense into the cultivation of a plant also means they're going to be less likely to be frivolous about it's use. The people that are currently asking questions are an easily solved problem I'd much rather be pointing people to a gardening forum and having them learn something that is of both philosophical and spiritual value. Many people have no connection to the earth Many can learn more than how to grow drugs by caring for a plant that gives back 100 fold. Whereas, the option you seem to be advocating is one of continued imports and sales of carrier items (monitored by DEA, US Customs and other agencies) To anyone with access to a paypal account or credit card (again easily monitored by the government) IF that is removed, then the anti drug forces will be forced to judge consumption by ER visits and the odd traffic stop... (I'm willing to bet that those will also decrease as well) If we continue to have websales of dead plant materials (importation) as with what happened with webtrypt "research chemicals" It will lead to the same illegalization that webtrypt did. Nobody learned a thing and when the suppliers were put into jail everyone was left out and looking for the next thing just as uninformed and as shallow consumers as before. Now the same types of people are doing it all over again. I'm asking you mutant to change your mind on this... I'd rather have long term but more difficult (and more appreciated) access then no access at all. (or worse).

They were selling it to kids The BBB had a brick and mortar store that sold to basically any and everyone so much so that the local news stories didn't bother to describe the store or what they sold when it made the news lead that evening. Well before this latest raid, they were too far above the radar within their own local (and very conservative) community in a conservative rural state american state. When they got raided the first time a few years back their customers were also hauled in They should have gotten the hint.... but they didn't. This time ... they once again seem to have handed over their entire customer and shipping list to the authorities. All the information was written down and or kept unencrypted. When doing a little more research on this issue it was discovered that there had been multiple confiscations of K2 on the local school grounds from students by teachers. That really does need to be stressed. They were selling it directly to school age kids. So we've got business that pisses into the communal botanical well No, he and his staff squat and take their turns shitting in it with cactus skins and overt marketing to the lowest noob end of the drug culture. He, nor his staff will listen to reason when people called them (I personally called them in an attempt to discuss my concerns) They insisted upon pushing the limits and basically were over confident and cocky about their legal standing as if that was the only concern. Now they're shut down and I'm thankful. I wish it hadn't been at the hands of the authorities and lawmakers.... but at least it's done and put some fear into the willfully naive. Both legally and culturally, This really deserves to be watched as well as stressed the history of events so that people will learn and that the only way is to really grow from seed and put the personal time into it... Quick and Easy is the Enemy.