Murple

On my trip to Bolivia, I noticed that the "achuma" in the La Paz area was pretty much exclusively a form of bridgesii, not pachanoi or peruvianus. The plants were EVERYWHERE, both wild and cultivated. Virtually all had been cut for use several times. I did bring home several cuttings, but haven't done anything but grow them. Too pretty to cut up! Some specimens: http://www.murple.net/gallery/ethnobotanicals/img_0250 http://www.murple.net/gallery/ethnobotanic...gesoid_Murple_3 http://www.murple.net/gallery/ethnobotanicals/img_0243 And in Bolivia: http://www.murple.net/gallery/lapaz/cactario_1 http://www.murple.net/gallery/lapaz/weird_cactus http://www.murple.net/gallery/lapaz/tricho

Kratom tea doesnt taste that bad... Even a little honey will cover it up. I usually drink the tea unsweetened. Its bitter and not very tasty, but its not unbearable at all.

"Most info" though probably is just various rehashings of the Swuanalert study. I'm not sure how much weight I'd give that.

I've been given an ounce of lago (and had another ounce from earlier), but havent seen anything solid on how to use it. Tea is the only method I've really heard about, but no dose info that I've seen. You suggest smoking?? What amount? What are the effects like... I've heard its a sedative of some kind.

White patches was probably a disease (insect or fungus most likely). As for the red and white/green veins, they apparantly can be found on the same plants, and it's not really known if these variations have any relationship to activity/potency.

Actually, mitragynine is *not* the main active, as has recently been scientifically proven.

Nearing completion of a MAJOR rewrite of that crappy kratom paper I put out a few years ago. Theres a few sections I want to factcheck, so, if anyone here has any corrections/additions/comments on these excerpts, please let me know ASAP. quote: Mitragyna speciosa itself reaches heights of 50 feet with a branch spread of over 15 feet. The stem is erect and branching. Flowers are yellow and grow in ball-shaped clusters, as previously mentioned. Leaves are a dark glossy green in color, smooth, ovate-acuminate in shape, and opposite in growth pattern. Leaves can grow over 7 inches long and 4 inches wide. Kratom is evergreen rather than deciduous, and leaves are constantly being shed and being replaced, but there is some quasi-seasonal leaf shedding due to environmental conditions. During the dry season of the year leaf fall is more abundant, and new growth is more plentiful during the rainy season. When grown outside their natural tropical habitat, leaf fall occurs with colder temperatures, around 4° Celsius. Kratom prefers wet, humusy soils in a protected position, often growing in swampy areas. Anecdotal reports from growers in Australia indicate that it prefers partial shade and does not like strong winds, although others report good results growing it in full sun. Being a heavy feeder, it requires very rich, fertile soil. It is drought sensitive, and if grown out of its native habitat, sensitive to frost. Propagation is by very fresh seed or cuttings. There is a low strike rate, due to an endogenous fungus which attacks xylem tissue. In addition to propagation by cuttings, kratom has been cloned by tissue culture. The first plant grown in this way was planted in February 2002 by Christian Rätsch and Claudia Müller-Ebeling at Wandjina Gardens (http://www.wandjina.net.au/) in Australia. Thais believe that seed grown kratom plants are not reliable and that half of the plants grown from seed of a good kratom tree will be worthless as a drug plant. Whether this is true or folklore has not been scientifically investigated. In recent years, kratom has been successfully cultivated outside of Thailand from seeds and then frequently cloned. Most plants available outside of Asia are clones, as seeds have only a short period of viability. There are several clone strains worth mentioning. The best known clone is the Robert Rifat Clone. This plant was originally grown by Shaman Australis from seed collected from a research institution in Thailand by the Swiss scientist Claude Rifat. The parent plant has been used in several research studies, and presumably is the Chulalongkorn University tree used in the Chiba University research. The Rifat Clone has a reputation for being especially strong, and is the most widely available clone outside of Asia. Another clone also grown by Shaman Australis was the Craig's Clone. This plant was grown from Thai seed collected in 1999 from trees which local residents said were their preferred kratom plants. Craig's Clone was never developed into a commercial strain out of deference to Rob Montgomery of the Botanical Preservation Corps, who were developing plants in the USA from the same batch of seeds. Tissue cultures of the plant were saved in long term storage medium, but in 2001 these became unrecoverable and this clone is now lost. However, as previously stated, Rob Montgomery and other individuals in the US were able to grow plants from the same seed collection, which reportedly included approximately 100 seeds which were distributed to a variety of botanists and collectors. Finally, there is the Bumblebee Clone, which was grown by a Spiritplants member named Bumble from seeds of Vietnamese origin. Although not scientifically studied yet, there is anecdotal evidence that indicates kratom grown in climates which are cooler than their native habitat tend to produce weak leaves. In warmer subtropical climates, there seems to be some seasonal variability, with more potent leaves growing from late summer through autumn and weak leaves in winter and spring. Greenhouse grown plants are reportedly also not very potent. Whether this indicates a relationship between temperature and alkaloid production or is even consistently true has not been thoroughly researched, but it seems likely this is the case. quote: The most recent country to ban kratom was Australia. The National Drugs and Poisons Schedule Committee held several meetings between February 2003 and February 2004 to consider including mitragynine and Mitragyna speciosa into Schedule 9 of the Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Drugs and Poisons. The NDPSC 39th Meeting in October 2003 agreed to schedule mitragynine, and 40th Meeting in February 2004 agreed to add kratom to Schedule 9 as well, pending review of public comments. Although several comments were received arguing that kratom was relatively harmless and had potential therapeutic value, the Committee pointed out the widespread sale and promotion of kratom on the internet was reason to believe it was a potential problem drug. Regarding potential medical uses, the NDPSC meeting minutes state, "A Member noted that based on the available data there was little evidence to show that M. speciosa was widely used for therapeutic purposes other than as a substitute for other addictive opiates and one other traditional use as an antidiarrhoeal. Although the pharmacology of M. speciosa suggested that analgesic effects were likely given the findings of studies quoted in several papers [e.g. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (Vol 20[4], Oct-Dec 1988], there was little data to suggest that Kratom was used traditionally as a pain reliever. On this basis, the Committee noted that despite post-meeting comments about the usefulness of M. speciosa for treating migraines, there was little evidence available to support a legitimate therapeutic need for the plant and members also noted that a number of other alternatives including complementary medicines were already available. A Member observed that information on Internet websites referred mainly to the use of Kratom for producing psychoactive effects and in contrast, there was paucity of information about its therapeutic use." The NDPSC then confirmed the decision to schedule kratom, and the amended SUSDP law went into effect 1 January 2005. Furthermore, a New Zealander on the Committee suggested that Australia should officially recommend to New Zealand that it also schedule kratom.And... quote: Beginning in late 2002, Bruno Phillips of Ebotashop, a botanical vendor located in France, began marketing a product which was alleged to be kratom imported from Myanmar (where kratom is illegal). This product was sold to other vendors as well as through Ebotashop. Many exotic botanical retailers around the world carried it, Shaman Australis estimates that 100 kilograms or more in total may have been sold to vendors at prices from $200 to $600 per kilogram. Some retailers produced extracts of this alleged kratom, either as a "full-spectrum alkaloid free-base" or as an extract made using vinegar which was called "mitragynine acetate" - or even more incorrectly, "kratom acetate." One vendor who had purchased this plant material, Daniel Siebert, began to notice that the leaves did not match published botanical descriptions of kratom. Notably, the leaves had some hairs. Daniel Siebert did a TLC analysis, and Mark Brady of MJB Botanicals did an HPLC analysis, and neither test indicated the presence of mitragynine. The TLC analysis did not produce any visible indole spots with Ehrlich's reagent. However, the HPLC results had two peaks with retention times similar to yohimbine, leading Brady to speculate that it could contain similar alkaloids. The alkaloid content of the dried leaf was approximately 4%, although the alkaloids remain unidentified. Some companies kept selling the product after this discovery, but renamed it to "Mellow Gold." Many people who have tried it report psychoactivity of some kind, while others have reported no activity. No harmful effects have been reported. Seeds from the same source were also available, and sold through various resellers as well. Based on examination of the leaves and seeds, some have theorized that this material could be Mitragyna parvifolia, but this is only a guess. Whether the psychoactivity reported for "Mellow Gold" is real or placebo is also uncertain.The rewritten paper is several times longer and corrects many errors and misconceptions, and there's a ton of new information - especially in pharmacology. Appreciate any help you can offer, since Shaman Australis was a center of much of the botanical research.

I have filed a formal complaint against the moderators of this forum with Torsten, and will not be participating in this forum again owing to the poor moderation here. [This message has been edited by Murple (edited 28 August 2002).]

There's quite a bit more regional variation in coca than this. "Bolivian coca" is meaningful only in a geographical sense... like "German beer" or "French wine." There are quite a few varieties of coca grown in Bolivia, and these varieties can be as different from each other as they are from varieties grown in Peru, Colombia, Ecuador or Chile. These are large countries that contain quite a few different ecosystems. There's plenty of isolated villages. The fact is that you really can't speak of "Bolivian coca" or "Peruvian coca" unless you're talking about something like the gross national crop production. Botanically speaking, these terms are pretty much meaningless. Reville - I somewhat resent being included in your statement. The fact that someone else has some kind of old grudge against me and chose this thread to post off topic crap about me really isn't my fault. I think that I've been as civil as possible under the circumstances, and have done my best to stay on topic in spite of the dung being flung in my direction. [This message has been edited by Murple (edited 27 August 2002).]

Well, I'm not a fan of tobacco, so I can't offer any real experience... but if I had to guess, I'd say the problem is that you need to learn the proper way to cure/dry/process the leaf. I'm sure some basics are available online somewhere in descriptions of how commercial tobacco products are made.

no need for this at all. [This message has been edited by Adrian (edited 28 August 2002).]

The white specks may be mealybugs... if they're white and somewhat fuzzy and can be wiped off easily, that's probably what they are. I suggest taking them out of their pots. Wash all the soil off the roots, and make sure there's no white critters on the roots. Throw away the original pots and soil. Clean off all those white spots with some rubbing alcohol. Re-pot them in new pots with fresh soil. After a few days, water them... Lopho's are pretty standard cacti and aren't too hard to care for. In winter, a well established plant can get by on very little water... a little splash every 3 or 4 weeks is plenty. In summer when its hot, they can be watered thoroughly once or twice a week. Fertilizing with MiracleGro every month or so in summer can be a real beneficial thing.

You probably would've been ripped off... aside from that price being laughable, the seeds were most likely dead already (if they weren't outright fakes) since coca seeds don't stay viable for very long. If you're not in the Andes, and someone offers you coca seeds... unless you actually watch them harvest the seeds from the plant, don't buy them.

> Murple, I am not jealous nor angry, I despise > you and pity you Oh how cute, you're still bitter over being spanked for being dumb on the Lycaeum forums? I can't say I really remember you, but hey, I'm happy for you! Its nice to have old familiar things to cling to in this sometimes cold and lonely world. You go enjoy your bitterness... it obviously means a lot to you. However, maybe you can go despise me where somebody actually cares, rather than this thread. In case you haven't noticed, this is a coca thread on an ethnobotany forum, not a "Murple made me cry" thread on a "Shit nobody cares about" forum.

I dont see why E. coca wouldn't tolerate Java's climate, based on what I know of Java.